Too much Leonardo, Let the others have a chance!

[AristaNiara]

This is just something that's been bothering me about the series and I REALLY feel that this needs to get out in the open.  I would like to say that I LOVE Leonardo.  If he were real, I'd be going out of my way to meet him and maybe ask if he would like to go out sometime even if it's to treating him to dinner in the park but in the new series, I have to say that season 4 was the Leonardo show and season 5 is the Michelangelo show co-starring Leonardo.  When is Raph and Don going to get the spot light?

I know that season 4 was designed around him but if you think about it, so was a good amount of seasons 1 & 2.  Let's face it, season 1 had the whole "Leonardo gets tricked by the Shredder, oh my gosh, he was so nieve."  Then there was also episodes 17-19 where Tales of Leonardo into the moment he wakes up and that was the big "Starring Leonardo" thing although he's out cold.

Season 2 had the "Big Brawl" thing going on and that was "The Michelangelo Show co-starring Leonardo."  Leonardo was unconcious and there was that whole big Drama.  Raphael had SOME part which was to get Splinter.  Donatello...he just seemed there.  Usagi could have done the whole diagnosis on Leonardo.  Season 4 was quite obviously Leonardo based with the exception of the Donatello monster drama which I have to say IT'S ABOUT TIME THAT DON HAD A BIGGER PART SINCE THE KIRBY EPISODE!

Maybe I'm just being stupid but I don't see many episodes starring Don or Raph and everyone is there.  I know there's one episode in the supposed season 5 which is revolving around Raph but there's nothing else revolving around Don.  I just want to see more Don and Raph.

Don't get me wrong, I really do LOVE seeing Leo star which is the Leo fan girl in me speaking but come on, even I have to scream "Leo, get out of the darn spotlight and let someone other than Mikey have a turn!"

I also feel that, understandably, Leonardo is highly looked up to with kids but can't Raph be the one getting his ordiment out first or even his own watch out first?  Why does Leo have the most merchendise out?  He's an ordiment, I've found TWO watches of him but there's no other turtle!  I just don't get it!

Okay, I'm done with my rant.  Again, to defend myself, I'm a Leo fan, I really am.  Leo makes up most of my collection but why is it that when I go shopping for stuff that's unusual, I can never find any other turtle but Leo and it's not because they're sold out of Don, Raph, or Mike?  That's all I want to know.  Okay, NOW I'm done

[Leonardo]

   

<sniffle>

     

     
Actually, I do have to agree to some extant.
Yes, I think it's great to see stuff about Leo, considering that Raph and Mikey often are the show stealers in most shows/movies of TMNT.
But I also like seeing all 4 characters featured in their own ways, too. Although I think Don is going to continue to have the best stuff in FF, at any rate.
 

[Donatello]

Yes... we need more Donatello.  And robots that last for more than one ep!    

[Leonardo_Mystic]

Though I love Leonardo very dearly, and will till my dying days, I do like to see when the others get the spotlight. At this point between the cartoon and the comics, I know Leo like the back of my hand, and identify with him very well because we are so much alike. Season four showed sides to him we've rarely seen, but they have been shown before at different points in the previous seasons. As do the comics in this regard, peeling underneath more layers of him. And along with the good comes the bad.

He has obsessions with being perfect, always being in control. He was in a state of depression for weeks after nearly dying from the Foot ambush as was shown in "Monster Hunter". He spent most of his time by himself moping around the barn. Raph got out him of his funk by helping him make new swords. In Mirage #11, he dressed in a Arab-like hat, cloak, and hunting clothes with bow and arrow strapped to his back as he went roaming around the woods hunting and wrestling bucks. He did this continously for months, and even when he rescued April from the pond, and finally seemed to have snapped out of it after the incident, his attitude had still not changed as Mikey contemplated to himself in the comic version "The People's Choice".

He went absolutely nuts in season four when again both of these failed for him at the end of season three. For months, he closed himself off from the world. Nothing else matter to him but winning; he was obsessed with it. He ended up only pushing away everyone he cared for he was trying to protect in the process, and became out of control. It wasn't until the wisdom and guidance of the Ancient One's help that he was finally able to free himself of it.  

He has been known to be rash, childish and immature. He was this way throughout the entire half of season four, but the "The Ancient One" episode showed a great deal more of that. There is also another episode in season one "The Shredder Strikes Part One" where again he acted like this. "I hate when Leo reminds me of me." - Raphael

He can be self-righteous, and stubborn. He has questioned, and even gone against authority; Master Splinter. "City At War" is such an example from the cartoon. Here he outright disobeyed Splinter's wishes not to get involved with the war. "The River" comics is another example. Here he went against Splinter's orders to hold his sword, and refrain attack on the leech Bloodsucker that got Raph demutated. Leo dived in, and went slicing. Also in this story arc, he refused to help little petshop turtle Raph fight the leech because "That's what Raph would have wanted".

He has questioned honor in the comic version "City At War". He became unmotivated even. He didn't know why he was fighting or what for.

However, despite all these bad points, he has wonderful ones as well. He is kind, gentle, protective, caring, loving, honorable, and diplomatic. Most times he is mature and selfless.


Eh, well, I see I kind of got off track here.   But the point I'm trying to make is I'd too like to see depth like this to the rest of the boys more often.

[Michaelangelo]

I love all of the Turtles, as everyone knows Mike is the one I'm closes too.  Though each of the Turtles holds a specail place in my heart.  So I love to see them all get front and center time.

Though with this series I feel as if they've only given the well rounded character to Leonardo.  True Mikey gets second spot of light... but it's all his comdey side, they use him as the releaf so that they can keep Leo so dark, and take the serious side out of Mike.  Which has ONLY been shown a few times in this series, they like the original series like to use him as the comic relief and that's it.

Each of the Turtles are well rounded characters, though it depends on how the writters use the characters on what we see.  In the last few seasons we see Leo's other sides, we see Mike's jokes... than Raph and Don fall into the back ground.  And when Don is being used, his brain is the main reason they pull him forward.  Like the original series, they're well making the characters only strong in the points that they're known for, and since Leo's so full of anger Raph doesn't have a spot in the group anymore for most of season 4.  Nice eh?  He's just a supportive role in a show where he's suppose to be a lead character.

I really enjoyed the first three seasons the most for 4Kids so far, and the lost season seems good too.   Even though Leo was getting well rounded episoides from the beginning so were the others.  I mean I hear some people say "The King" was Don's best well rounded episoide...  I have to disagree with that.  The King was a nice episoide true, showed more of Don's curious side which we see a lot of.   Though for me some of Don's best episoides were season's 2 "Return to the Underground" and season 3 "Same As It Never Was" both are really strong impacted episoides...  showing Don's different sides... "Return to the Underground" showed Don's anger for not being able to help their friends yet, it shows him snap at his brothers... and as my music video showed... I felt there was a bit more with Don in that episoide.   And Same as it Never was, crushed him... it showed him a horrable future where he lost his brothers.   Both of these episoides were WONDERFUL Donatello episoides and I'd love to see more of that.

With Raphael they've shown very few episoides just meant for him as well, one of his best will be "Lone Raph and Cub" where true they made the mistake of saying that the Turtles need their eyes to see, true Raph was the slowest at learning how to fight like this even in the script for the original movie... though I'm sure he would of been doing some what better than what he was doing... esp with invisiable Ninjas being their enemies already by this time, and with all the training in the dark we already saw Splinter doing with them up on the sticks.   Though let's look pass that mistake and it shows Raph doing something for someone else, showing not just his temper side but showing he's there to help.  I also really enjoy "Across the Universe" where they showed his love for bikes and that he's not just a hot headed ball of attitude.  There's so much more they can do with each of the other Turtles.  Which is why I'm hoping that Leo takes a little bit of a back seat... not to where he's not in the episoides as much... just to where the writers realize that we know his sides, we want to see more of the others grow and change through the series as well.

With Fast Forward I already see this starting to happen as Donatello and Raph are getting some forground... though once again the writters are picking on their niches...   where Raph is just ANGRY with the future and Don is just being all geeky about it.  Time to start working on some character growth for those two.

[Raphael]

I, too, would love to see more spotlight on the "Forgotten turtles", especially with regard to rounding their personalities/charactesrs more.  Unfortunately, I have a bad feeling that character growth isn't going to be a major aspect of Fast Forward. It's been moved backwards, they want to only show the characters as simply as possible, fewer dimensions are easier to understand and deal with.  

At least, that's how I'm seeing it.

[AristaNiara]

Thank you!  I'm not the only one who feels that way!  I actually feel that in a way, Raph and Don were ALWAYS the turtles pushed into the background...no wonder Raph acts out for attention!

[Absaraka]

I'm not going to surprise anyone here, but I agree.

The show has started to get WAY too Leo-centric.  Where the shell is Raph?  I swear, if Raph got on Dr. Phil's show and said, "Doc, ya gotta help me.  Nobody ever pays any attention to me," Dr. Phil would cut straight to commercial.

If they did a re-launch of an X-Men series and gave Wolverine this little screen time, it would be a front-of-the-D-section scandal before too long.  How can the writers just keep ignoring one of their lead characters?

My theory--for whatever it's worth--is that the writers either don't want to (or just plain CAN'T) do full justice to Raphael's character.  Make no mistake, Raph is a VERY complicated character.  He's so hard to write well, that they just write him badly by default, I think.  Because once you start to get beyond the cookie-cutter Angry Young Man routine, Raph's character REALLY starts opening up, and he can easily dominate the story.  (See Movies 1 and 3, for example.)

I think they may just be backgrounding him because he's too much the antihero.  He's got Issues, as they say.  So let's let Leo run the show, because he's so easy to write anyway.

For what it's worth--

Raka

[WolfofMibu]

So let's let Leo run the show, because he's so easy to write anyway.

I would disagree that Leo is easy to write for, he is just as complex a character as Raphael is.

Leonardo and Raphael are similair in the fact that they are both very dynamic characters that tend to dominate a storyline with there presence. The biggest difference in my mind is Leonardo is a more typical "hero" type, and fits the mold of the characters 4Kids is more comfortable with.

Has this annoyed me?? I won't lie I love all the attention Leonardo is getting, he could get his own show and I wouldn't care and I would watch it! I do think what they are doing to te other characters is unjust and I have actually brought this up to people involved with the show.

Honestly I am most annoyed with the way 4Kids has been treating Splinter more then anyone. He has turned into an at times almost feeble father figure that sits at home and they make soap opera jokes about. And Splinter has NEVER had his own episode. Every other character in the show... EVEN Baxter has had there own episode, but not Sensei. He has been the driving force for a few episodes in past seasons, but he has never had a "Lone Raph and Cub", "Same as it Never Was" or "Hun on the Run" of his own.

If ANYONE should protest it is Splinter fans.

[Raphael]

Heh, well, technically, the show isn't called "Senior Kick Butt Ninja Rats", so it isn't necessarily expected that Splints would get his own ep. Of course, that doesn't explain why some of the other supporting cast have gotten their own eps.

Not to say he shouldn't...while it wasn't a solo ep, he did have the front and centre attention when he was missing (sorta)...but that's not the same thing, I know.

I agree that they're having issues with his character and they definitely need to work on that. While it's interesting that a mutant rat can wipe the floor with the worst villain one day, then want to peacefully sit around and watch soaps the next, it does seem a little confusing. Of course, maybe that's their way of showing how multi dimensioned he is?

"Sure, I enjoy kicking butt with my sons, but that doesn't mean I don't get misty eyed if John & Marcia break up because Phil and Louise lied to them about Bob and Ted and Carole and Alice."

Um...where was I going with this?  

[Leonardo]

Splinter shouldn't be one-D either. No more than Raph is always "an angry, leap into battle without thinking sort."
So I don't exactly have a problem with Splinter watching soaps, it's just when there's priorities and the soaps are on top of that? Then it doesn't quite make sense.
Because there are sooo many precedents out there for wise teachers in kung-fu and chanbara movies that walk around as some average peaceful non-threatening or even doddering person, then leap into attack on a split second and take out the baddies before they knew what hit them. Then go back to shuffling down the street. Splinter was meant to be a nod to these kinds of martial art teachers--if you believe the tale that's out there, he was named Splinter in honor of Stick. And having Splinter with a compassionate and non-agressive unless provoked side is realistic, based on how and what he has taught his sons.

And I also do NOT agree Leo is an easy character to write for.
In fact, most often in the media in the past, he's the most off-character, whereas the others were much closer.
I think it just so happens we got some writers on the new Toon that were able to figure out the Leo character a lot better and they had some fun with it.

And I do think the new Toon does a really good job with Raph, it's just he doesn't get enough time being the main focus for some episodes. They do have his attitude down--like the bapping!--yet his protective concern for Mikey, or his family covered by the bristly exterior. He gets some great lines, and the VA has a perfect wicked Raph laugh going at the right times. He certainly gets his bike and way of driving in the Toon--including destroying two vehicles in one episode. And his approach to battle is all there.

I think Mikey gets the shortest end of them all in the new Toon. Because Don is treated with respect for his more scientific approach and logic--even though I agree he's been too much in the background last season. In the new Toon, even though Mikey often gets a lot of focus, Mikey is more often the accidental goof than anything else. Sometimes, they do show other sides for Mike, or he is the one the save the day by using his brain, but I still think he's more talented than just being good at video games and knowing pop culture, and accidentally a good fighter.

[Nightwatchersonlygirl]

More Raphael

[AristaNiara]

Wow...I wrote this when and it's still being talked about?  lol....I'm in agreement here.  We need a total solo Splinter episode!  And maybe more solo episodes for each of the turtles!

[BubblyShell22]

While I love Leo-centric eps the most, I do agree that the other Turtles need more screen time. In FF, it felt like the Mikey and Don show, with a little Raph thrown in for good measure. Leo had hardly any eps to himself in that season, so I thought that would've made people happy. And I totally agree that Splinter needs his own ep! He rocks!

[Raphael]

I think people still want to see the others because, from a quality perspective, FF eps don't measure up to the previous seasons. A 'fluff' episode, like one might find in FF isn't the same quality as some of the character pieces that we saw in previous seasons.