Ever Notice Female Villains Fall For Leo???

[LenniluvsBrian]

I've been watching TMNT Season 5 - of the old cartoons & today TMNT Season 4 of the new cartoons. I've noticed that the female villians always fall for Leo. First, Lotus in the old cartoon & now Karai in the new cartoon. I mean, even Venusm (TMNT: TNM) might've been after him, but I really think she was after Raph. *scowls*


But, anyways, the girls fall for Leo & then all the bad guys want Leo dead more so than the rest of his brothers & sometimes even more than they want Master Splinter dead. Why is he so loved amongts the female villians, yet so hated by the males? Is it because the females fall for him? Lol.


~Lenni~

[Michaelangelo]

Well Raph has taken his evil chick before, Ninjara  And he was successful at turning her good.   Better than Leo is with his evil girls  

[Leonardo]

Maybe it's because...ahem...Leo's the best.
 
But Leo would never fall for a bad girl, it's just not honorable. Raph on the other hand, that's his type of thing.
 

[Michaelangelo]

Never?  Oh come on bro... remember Lotus?    

[Terri]

Perhaps the ladies fall for Leo because of the way he is.  He's a noble warrior and is always respectful in a fight.  Take Karai for example, Leo usually gives a speech about giving up the 'dishonorable ways' and attempts to persuade her to leave the foot.  He shows concern for her well being, and most girls go ga-ga for that kind of stuff.

[WolfofMibu]

I don't know if I would say Karai "falls" for Leo as much as she is obsessed with Leo.

If she actually cared for him she couldn't hurt his family, let alone try to destroy him.

I think Leonardo represents for Karai in season 3 what she would like to become. I believe she doesn't start out as a bad person and that a part of her really did want to change. She clung to the ideals Leo kept giving her, wishing she could fulfill them and become a better person.

I think during the end of season 3 and season 4 we see that become twisted. Karai begins to resent Leo for both the fact that he is something she herself wanted to be and was too weak to become and because in her mind the Turtles and Splinter really did betray her beloved Master. I think we see her attack Leo's family mostly out of hatred for what they did to her Father, but with Leo it is far more personal. I am certain one she thinks the influnce Leo started to have on her made her weak and unable to truly help her Master during the Exodus fight because it put what I am certain she now feels are stupid ideals in her mind. Two I think there is still a tiny part of her soul that hates herself for not being able to be the honorable woman she wanted to be. And that hatred reflects at Leonardo because he IS that honorable person.

That is the way I interpret it at least. Leonardo pities Karai for the cards life has dealt her and tries to help her. She turns around and very literally stabs him in the back. I don't know I personally never really saw them "falling" for each other as much as I saw a mutual warriors respect for each other. They were raised in similar yet vastly different ways. They understood each other for a time.

Oh and I have to edit to add that indeed Leo IS the best!<3

[Leonardo]

I really like your post WolfofMibu!!
I always had a hard time with the concept of a romantic approach for Karai toward Leo. It was too simple a thing for "spurned love" for her level of hatred. So you put into words the things I have thought about.
(And no, this has nothing to do with the fact about your posting Leo's the best.)
 

[Leonardo_Mystic]

Perhaps it's his gentlemanly charms and kind, warm heart that attract them. You know a bad girl can fall for a good man. *giggles*

Okay, I'm only half joking because he really is those things, but I agree with Mibu. The only appeal Karai has/had with Leo is because he is all the things she couldn't/can't be. Jealous much?

[LenniluvsBrian]

Well, it is true they usually talk to Leo before the others, so it seems in the episodes I've seen & remember. Though, I think Venus wanted all - that's just my opinion. I never liked Venus - she used to remind me of my best friend back then. Lol.


I liked Karai - she did seem to understand Leo & she played both sides for a while. I love how Leo keeps giving her just one more chance to become honourable. Well, he does in that one episode after she thinks she's killed his family. I think that episode is deifintely one of my faves. I just - I love how Leo looks & acts through the whole episode.


   I think I've just about completely re-fallen for Leo! I think Raph's starting to let his guard down! Eep!


Hehe. Not completely - Raph still makes me smile.  


~Lenni~

[Ninjara]

Good grief.....did I almost let this one get by without some comment?  

    Well Leo, you know how persuasive Raph can be.  
   
    But I think Leo could switch a bad one around as well.....the only thing is, he most likely would not fall for her.  Reason being, he strikes me as the sort who has a thing about trust.....and it would take some doing on the girl's part to prove she was absolutely trustworthy.  And Raph....well, his standards are different....he'd take the whole thing as a challenge.....so what if she's bad   .......and I think I'm talking too much.  Okaaayyy......

[Leonardo]

Raph's standards are different....this from Ninjara....
       
I just can't make any additional comments. I'd get in sooo much trouble.
 

[LenniluvsBrian]

Yeah, Leo would hafta trust her more. Especially if she was working for The Shredder. But, still - it'd be kinda cool to see.


And Raph's NOT allowed to get the girl - unless it's me!!!! Lol.    


~Lenni~

[Ninjara]

Aye.  Go ahead and laugh, Leonardo.      

    Actually, I was thinking on this a little more.  The funny thing about Raph's "standard" is he won't have any thing to do with a true villainess.  It's like he has a sixth sense in a way when it comes to females.  He likes the challenge 'bad girls' present.....he admires their ability to kick butt.....give him a run for his money mentally.......but if the line has been crossed in regard to his family, if they represent a threat in any way, he will never accept them.  Ever.  

    The other thing I was thinking on was the way each Turtle deals with females in general.  In the old Mirage comics I always wondered at the patience Raph would exhibit with them.....thinking of Renet here.

    But perhaps that's another topic.....for another time.  

.............yes, Lenni, it would be cool to see some romance.....  *sigh*

[Leonardo]

I think I may have to quit coming into this thread...it's getting scarier than the stuff about Raph hacking apart Living Dead Dolls....

As for the new Toon, even after reading the various views presented, I don't see that Leo would ever have a romantic relationship with Karai. It wouldn't be true to character.
So from a Leo character standpoint, think about this....
Would you want a relationship with someone who waffles about basically being good or bad? Who is always playing games? Not honest? Not trustworthy? Inconsistent in words and actions?
Would you put yourself into a romantic relationship after being stabbed through the shoulder with your own sword by that person?
Would you desire a relationship with someone who's unstable with a lot of issues to work through, and after a hard time picking which side of the fence to be on, when she does declare her side for Shredder, seeks to destroy your entire family, over and over again? Wants your head on a platter?
Yeah, nothing says "love me" like that.

Even before Karai chose Shredder's side, a romantic relationship was unrealistic for Leo.
Leo's a natural leader type (not the power leader type), would recognize potential in others and desire to bring that talent out.  So I agree with the concept of Leo admired the potential he saw in Karai, to try to encourage her to rise above her past and maybe become an ally, to free herself of a dark and evil path. But that admiration wasn't based in romantic love.

As for romance...go dig up those Archie comics with Raph and Ninjara...
     

[Ninjara]

Are you looking at this thread while at work, Leo? Hmmmm?  As for me?  Yes, I'm in my lair at the moment.....very nice day here too.

   Ummmm, yes, the Archie series, lest we forget......actually, that was a nice romp.     And as for heads on platters.....LOL!!    

   Okay, I'll be serious.  Yes.  Leo does approach bad girls, Karai being a very good example, with his leadership qualities engaged. Exactly as you stated.  And I agree too, that any admiration for her, on his part, was never based on romance.

   Which brings me to the saying by Goethe:
  'Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of being.'
   (Gosh. Karai was only capable of more treachery.....does this mean she has more bad than good in her?  Now I have something else to think about!)

    As for me ..... to quote someone else.....
  "I'm not really a bad girl......I'm just drawn that way."