Mirage , the art team....

[Shredder]

This may be unpopular with some, but here goes...

IF memory serves, Jim Lawson illustrated the books City at War.  It's been a while since I looked at them, but I remember liking the art.    

I picked up three movie books this past weekend.  Donatello, April, and Movie Adaption.  

The Covers: Whoever did those got the look of the turtles down pat.  Donatello should have looked that well drawn in the movie.  April also had a much better, and older looking design than she had in the movie.  However, that's where it ends.

Jim Lawson can still draw great looking architecture, as seen in the Donatello issue.  But his turtles nad Splinter just look...sloppy for lack of a better word.  I just don't like the look of them at all, and the humans in volume four look like complete and total crap.    I'm the kind of guy who prefers realism..or at least as close as you can get.  The 2K3 art style.....Dragonball s-Buu Saga art style....Thundercats season 2 art style....He-Man 1983 style.  Stuff like which is fluid, moves well, and is easy on the eyes too look at is what I love.  

None of that is found in the Donatello book.  Also, the Movie adaption book.  This was a chance for them too show people how great the turtle book is, and how serious the art could be.  Instead, Mikey looked like he had an eye problem the entire issue with his eyes lighter than the others.   Also, the characters just didn't look like they should, and it was as if the artist gave his own interpretation of them in this book..

Anyone else agree, dissagree, flame away.. that's what the flame pit is for ...

[Aignatius]

Agreed on the Jim Lawson art. If readers wanted to see modern art, they wouldn't look for it in a TMNT comic, they'd go to a place like MOMA. And I think Mr. Lawson needs to leave the cubist approach to people who knew what they were doing during its heyday, like Braque and Picasso.

Heard some issues that just came out looked pretty good. It's nice to see well drawn stuff again...

To be fair, there were some previous issues where I thought Lawson's art fit the mood pretty well. PLus I was trying to find some positive things to say among all the negatives. But it wasn't easy. And I wouldn't be able to say anything complimentary beyond that, without being dishonest. Sigh... you know what I mean.

[Kazari]

Honestly, I have to disagree. I like Jim Lawson's art. I like Jim Lawson as a person. I have met him several of times at NYCC. Every artist is different. They all have their unique style.  Jim did a sketch for me of Donatello and I absolutely love it.

[Leonardo]

When one is at a comic shop or convention, and talks to a comic book fan in general that was/is a TMNT fan, but not a fan who is not into TMNT enough to be on message boards and such. Doesn't watch the cartoons, etc. The stuff one hears is often disgust over the art and/or story and refusal to spend money on the book. (These are the main reasons comic readers quit collecting any other series by any other company, right?)

I have met Jim, too. A few times. He's a really nice guy. I saw the pages for the 'death of Klunk' story before they were lettered and finished, we had a good laugh how the Klunk fans were going to go after him when that came out.... He's a wonderful and talented man. Years ago I loved his art. And Jim can do brilliant panel design layout! Also push the envelope for some fun experimental things that worked out great, like the blinded Leo work--as more recent work of his, I actually liked that a lot.
And yes, I understand how artists change their styles over time and grow into new things. As an artist of sorts, I respect his right to draw how he likes. And there are other comic artists out there with not-so-realistic styles that can still come across nicely conveying the art side of the story. My thoughts are my own preferences in art, but when I also hear other 'fringe fans' complain over the past number of years that quit reading the book over the art? (And some for the story since the aliens came to Earth.) I know it's not just me.
Because I like Jim doesn't change the fact I can be honest about saying I miss his older style of art and don't care for the style of the past number of years.
When you can't even distinguish the human characters from each other sometimes (and one might find it confusing which turtle is which sometimes--shouldn't have that with the humans!), or they have things like huge blocky lips that make me think of masks from primitive art. (For those that are not art majors out there, primitive is not a derogatory term here. Primitive art is wonderful in and of itself, I just don't care for a look like that in my comic books.)
And when the anatomy can get so warped it gets to that cubist look? (And cubism is also fine, and an interesting art style for its conveyance of time in a non-moving image, but again, I don't care for it in my comic books.)
For me, worst of all, is the lack of true emotion on the characters faces when they get drawn in a less detailed and refined way. That is what I miss most of all.

[Kazari]

I understand where you come from Leonardo, however, I don't see anything wrong with the new stuff. Every comic that I have purchased recently from any artists still satisfies me. The only one I had issue with was the movie comics. I think they were poorly done.

[Leonardo]

That's why art is a subjective thing.
I've had formal training, I have respect for artists, I work in the graphics industry, although I have headed into management now....
I think I explained myself well, and will leave it as I started this post--art is a subjective thing.

[Shredder]

Just finished the movie book.  


It went by so fast, I thought I had skipped a few pages in story.  If you didn't see the movie, the book might be tougher too figure out what is going on.

The art, while not bad, is not what I would have chosen for this title book.  Folks who may never have picked up a Mirage TMNT Comic before, this was their chance too show them how good the art and story could be in a Turtles title.  I don't think this book won them over any new readers.  

Mikey looked like he was on crack, or super hyped up on beer or something the entire time.  The eyes just looked weird....

[Aignatius]

It's unfortunate that it was so disorganized.  

[Kazari]

Yeah I wasn't impressed with the movie collection. I hated the art and I was sad that they didn't put any cut scenes in the comic book that weren't in the movie.

[Ninjara]

The 2007 movie books were a big disappointment, I agree.  Often when I see the comic book in the TMNT movie video game, the one that comes into view when you get to another level, I often find myself thinking, "That's the book we should have had!"  But even that book has some ducky-wucky lips on the Turtles.  Is it because the 'pencils' were really cgi to begin with, and not rendered by hand on paper?  Me wonders.

   Anyway, getting back to Lawson.....

    Years ago, I wrote a letter to Jim.....and he apparently never forgot it, because every time we've met since then, he's made a reference to it.  
 Jokingly, but nonetheless, he brings it up.

     Unfortunately, visits to Mirage are total mindblowers for any fan.  Any of you who have been there know what I'm talking about.  It's really hard to focus because of all the eyecandy art around the place.

   Since I'm usually with others, I have never been able to have a private moment with him, or the presence ot mind, to ask him pointblank why he adopted the cubic artstyle.  But I have a hunch why he went that route.  And that is....

   Given the lifestyle that he has,[wife, kids, motorbiking, etc.] and the personality that he is,[big play ethic, very sociable, lively thinker,etc.] that was the only way he could bang out the books on a regular basis.

   And the books have come out a lot more regularly.  You don't have to wait 2 or 3 months for the next one.

    It has been argued that there are other people in the industry that turn out more visually appealing work on a monthly basis.....but hey......they aren't Jim.  I don't think it's really that Jim doesn't care about what he's doing.  He does.  Criticism does hit home.  But it's probably more that this is the only way he can get everything done in his life, for the time he has to do it all.

    Looking back on the books, much of his early stuff in Tales, was pretty good really.  It kind of goes back and forth a little bit till we get to 1993.  We have the City at War books...and then in October of '93 we go to full color.....and that's where we all go sliding down the hill with these books.  There's your cubism for real.

     I don't know.  I suppose now that I've gone back and looked at this stuff, and made some mental notes, I suppose the next time I see him I might remember to ask some questions.....or, if one of you sees him before then, you could ask and get some answers.  But I'm sure he did what he did because he felt that was the only way he could do everything being demanded of him.  Not because he was some kind of dodgy slacker or whatever.
 (Not that anyone said that, Jim.)

   One thing I do love about Mirage and the guys there, is that it's just a group of friends, with mutual interests, that get together, and when they're together, some neat stuff comes out of their heads and onto paper.  They are all laidback, thought provoking, and fun to be around.

For the record:
 I've met other artists, from other studios.  But as a whole, the guys at Mirage, past and present, have always seemed to me, to be more down to earth and 'real'.  No putting on airs.  No "we are inaccessible" vibes.  They're all thinkers, well read, and a hell of lot of fun.  
  So given the nature of the place where they work, and who they are as individuals, I'm afraid that even when I'm disappointed by an issue, I find myself forgiving them.......eventually.  Like my own family.  

[Raphael]

Unfortunately, visits to Mirage are total mindblowers for any fan.  Any of you who have been there know what I'm talking about.  It's really hard to focus because of all the eyecandy art around the place.

For the record:
 I've met other artists, from other studios.  But as a whole, the guys at Mirage, past and present, have always seemed to me, to be more down to earth and 'real'.  No putting on airs.  No "we are inaccessible" vibes.  They're all thinkers, well read, and a hell of lot of fun.  
  So given the nature of the place where they work, and who they are as individuals, I'm afraid that even when I'm disappointed by an issue, I find myself forgiving them.......eventually.  Like my own family.  

I agree with you on the Mirage visits. Only been there once and it was like "Wow". Everywhere you looked, just "Wow". As for the down to earth, yeah, I hear ya. I have a hard time envisioning DC or Marvel letting the fans go traipsing through their offices, the way Mirage has done.

[Buslady]

Lawson's art from years ago was just fine.  it was detailed and looked really nice. When I picked up V4 stuff, I was like WTF??? What happened?
it's crap! boxy snouts and weird looking humans, the girls look like guys and whats with the lips? eesshh
okay i read the rest of the posts, i can see where he's trying to fit the job between life but he should slow down...it feels he's just throwing whatever on the bristol and printing it. I know thats not what it intended, but to me it seems that way. I've seen his better stuff from years ago, love it. I would like to see that good stuff back, I'd be more enthused about the wacky weird storyline if the art was back up to snuff. If he doesnt have the time to draw like he used to, then he shouldn't do it at all. Fans buy this stuff, we at least deserve his and other artists high quality material.
ah well, dont think it matters anyways cos it doesnt seem the book will continue..I think V4 died.

 honestly...i wish they would let Bess do an issue, she could knock the socks off any run of the mill comic artist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aignatius]

It's a dilemma for me when I buy the comics. I have to get them on order, and it's only right to buy them when they come in.

Then I think maybe it is better they stop doing the comics if they can't do a very good job of it. At least I'd be saving myself a few bucks. It's not the kind of artwork that I want to go back and read over and over again. I'm basically paying to see how the story turns out, maybe a few choice scenes and dialogue and that's about it. There were some issues where Lawson's style actually worked, and I commented positively on that, but... that wore thin.

To buy or not to buy, that is the question.  

[Ninjara]

 
    Geez.  Guys.  Why all the flap now?  We've been living with this stuff since 1993.

     I don't think there will be much of a change now.  It's too ingrained.  Frankly, I think we as fans were always destined for a strange sort of book, as far as getting an issue to read, or having the original artists do it.  Not even Pete and Kev could stay on the horse, so to speak.  The art was good, but the books were sporadic.

     I don't know.  While sometimes I have thought, "Do it better, or don't do it at all," I still bought the books.  I guess I'm feeding off something else that comes through in the stories.  The essence of the Turtles gets through to me somehow.  But that's the way I'm wired.  Once I lock onto to something I love, I can find it forever it seems.

     My take on the whole thing is to glean what I can from the books at this point.  One day they will be gone.

 Just like one day we'll have to face the fact we won't have any access to any new TMNT stuff period.

 That prospect really sucks.  But the wheel will eventually turn far enough and we'll find ourselves there.  And then......hmmmm......I don't know.....I may be a Phael by nature, but I'm an optimist at heart.

   At least the memories are forever.