Peter Laird...

[Shredder]

I'm about done with turtes, and Peter Laird attacking Dawn for no reason what so ever pretty much put the final nail in the coffin.  First thing to do is to ditch all the remaining websites I have devoted to it.  Second thing is to stop buying new turtle merchandise, and third is to just live with the memories...

Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but his reply in this post was totally uncalled for form an outsiders perspective. All it does is make him look like a paranoid shell..a jerk at best..
Your opinions?

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=1686991059820767773&postID=8408526644099717033

[Machias_B]

I think the whole dogpile of "Oh he treated me bad!" "Oh, he treated me bad too!" is sending him over the edge. What was originally just a thread about his thoughts on the new Star Trek movie has turned into a court case against Peter Laird as a creator/participator in the franchise.

I'm sorry, but the more I read that thread, the less sympathy I have for those involved. I think that entire thread is a mess and people on ALL sides need to back off and take a breather...

THEN, I think, you should really look at everything and decide if this spat is something you really want to quit the fandom over...


but that's my two cents.

[Shredder]

I think the whole dogpile of "Oh he treated me bad!" "Oh, he treated me bad too!" is sending him over the edge. What was originally just a thread about his thoughts on the new Star Trek movie has turned into a court case against Peter Laird as a creator/participator in the franchise.

I'm sorry, but the more I read that thread, the less sympathy I have for those involved. I think that entire thread is a mess and people on ALL sides need to back off and take a breather...

THEN, I think, you should really look at everything and decide if this spat is something you really want to quit the fandom over...


but that's my two cents.

It's not just that spat... It's a few other things as well.  But I am taking that bit of advice and leaving the blog world.  If sticking up for someone on a totally unneeded reply gets this type of blog response, it's needed..


 

[Machias_B]

You're not killing your Own blog, are you?

I've always been leery of blogs, just because of how people can get into this lil bubble... I've only just Recently gotten involved with one, and have had a very good experience with it.

I've taken breaks from the fandom a few times over the years, and it always helps. Enjoy your break, and hopefully you'll come back to us soon...

[Leonardo_Mystic]

I think it's gotten utterly ridiculous and over a freakin' opinion of Star Trek in his own blog! What is wrong with some of these people? The last time I'd seen it like this was at Murphy's blog and looked at what happened? He shut it down. He got sick of the endless, childish bickering and the vile backlash towards him.

I don't want this to happen with Peter's blog because I enjoy having an insight to the Turtles' creator and all that goes inside and outside of the Turtles' world. I don't want the actions of a few to again punish the fandom as a whole because we get something we enjoyed taken away. It's not right.

Neil, you shouldn't blame it all on Peter. There are a handful of people that will take his words and perceive them as anything but the real truth. They have this personal vendetta against him and for what reason I don't know. He's never done anything to hurt anyone, but he's only human. A person can only take so much vile backlash from some of those same people over and over with good grace before enough is enough.

[Shredder]

wow. I'm surprised everyone is missing the point. 

Dawn wasn't being vile here.   A memory for her was brought up, she wrote about it, regretted it, and up until Peter kept on going after her, I've been trying to play devils advocate and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  Did he not yell and swear and curse at everyone?  true, he didn't.  But it wasn't exactly a nice reply either.     

Anyway, I'm done being seen as one of the new villains on the blogosphere.....all  I was trying to do was stick up for someone...   go figure at what that gets ya...

[Leonardo_Mystic]

wow. I'm surprised everyone is missing the point. 

Dawn wasn't being vile here.   A memory for her was brought up, she wrote about it, regretted it, and up until Peter kept on going after her, I've been trying to play devils advocate and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  Did he not yell and swear and curse at everyone?  true, he didn't.  But it wasn't exactly a nice reply either.

Yet, Dawn could not produce one shred of evidence to the alleged e-mail when he asked. No one could, not even those she showed it to. It's a she/he said scenario, none of which would hold up in a court of law, I'm afraid. All he wanted was evidence and she couldn't give it to him. The accusation therefore does not hold water. Why even bring it up now in the first place when she could've said something all those years ago? It's stupid. What did she hope to accomplish? Nothing. It accomplished absolutely nothing except it poured more fuel onto the fire.

[FumikoKaida]

I'm going to be mean about this.

1.) Shredder, isn't there a rule about bashing people on this message board?  I'm certainly taking this as Peter Laird Bashing.

2.) What does one incident which could have occurred all because the man was having a bad day have to do with your liking of TMNT?  Do we honestly know what was going through his head at the time?  No!  For all you know, Mr. Laird could have had a fight with Mrs. Laird and he came to work and wrote what he did out of anger.  Just because one of your friends says a mean comment about another friend, does that make them a bad person?  No.  One of them could be having a bad day and that one friend just managed to get under the skin of the other friend.

In the words of the many gaming sites that I've seen, Managers, I ask you to please:

/close thread

[Raphael]

The moderators have been watching both this thread and Peter's blog thread and will take action when it is deemed necessary.

As Shredder mentioned, his decision is not based solely on what happened in Peter's blog this time...and it's his decision to make.

[Aignatius]

It's the flame pit, where people can vent their frustrations about any particular issue they want, and correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe Shredder is the administrator of TMNT-L and has been as such for the past 14 years. Hasn't he also been paying out of pocket to keep this forum running?

I can understand your frustration, Shred. It's an unfortunate situation all around. The fandom is supposed to be a fun pastime, but when it ceases to be as such... 

[Raphael]

Fugitoid is the administrator of this TMNT-L board, Aig. (thou hast been corrected)

As for venting, there are still some limits, and we would like to see as little flaming and/or fights from other boards brought over here as possible. So far, this thread hasn't strayed horribly into the 'bashing' realm, which is why the thread hasn't been closed down.

[Aignatius]

Oh, right. Fugitoid.

Well, Shredder's not one to be bashing anybody. He's too nice a fellow for that, in spite of his name.

Also should have added that the flame pit is like a barbeque, too much flame and everything becomes dry, burnt and inedible, just enough heat makes things crunchy on the outside and juicy in the middle. In other words, there's nothing like a good debate, and discussion to clear things up, but not if it's an endless argument with name-calling and belittling the enem-- er, the opposing view. 

[Raphael]

Everything is a bbq to a drAIGon, isn't it, Aig?   

[Ninjara]

  Well, it is the traditional BBQ weekend here in the USA.  Memorial Day weekend.  Quite appropriate. 

   To answer Shred's question, yes, to an outsider, Pete may come off as a jerk with the comments he made.  But I don't think of him as a jerk.  Probably because I'm taking into account what he is astrologically.  But anyway....

   It's amusing a comment about the new Star Trek film ripped open some age old questions and beefs about the Turtles.
  Dawn saw an opportunity to try to make Pete see what some fans had been lamenting, since he was disenchanted with the Star Trek thing..... *sigh*.....and off everything went.
 
 While it was rather emotionally charged at times, and some silly things said in the heat of those moments, as humans are wont to do, Pete did explain some of why he did what he did with the Turtles, and that was pretty cool.  I enjoyed reading that.  If there was anything positive to come from that whole exchange, in my opinion it was that. 

  Okay, Aig, where are those hot dogs?  Or are we doing burgers afterall?

   

   

[Aignatius]

Hey come on over, and we'll have buffalo burgers. But bring a coat, hat and gloves, it's chilly. Same temps here as Anchorage, right now. 

As far as what goes on with Peter? *shrug* I really don't give a bat's eyelash what he does with his stuff, any more. 

Stand back, I feel a sneeze coming on... 

[cynlee]

wow. I'm surprised everyone is missing the point. 

Dawn wasn't being vile here.   A memory for her was brought up, she wrote about it, regretted it, and up until Peter kept on going after her, I've been trying to play devils advocate and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  Did he not yell and swear and curse at everyone?  true, he didn't.  But it wasn't exactly a nice reply either.     

Anyway, I'm done being seen as one of the new villains on the blogosphere.....all  I was trying to do was stick up for someone...   go figure at what that gets ya...

I haven't missed the point.  Laird was out of left-field with his sudden attack.  It was so bizarre, especially after he'd actually answered GreenWillow regarding Vol. 4!  His explanation regarding the comic was so grown-up and mature-- then BAM!  "You're a big lying meanie DAWN!!"

I had so wanted to meet PL in person.  But at the moment I can't.

I've stopped reading that section, btw-- and I've commented about other things he's got on his blog.  I'm not done with him yet, but I've never been so shocked in my life at how 180 that became.

[Ninjara]

   No.....the point wasn't lost on me either, Shred. And really, there's no need for you to kick yourself for going to someone's aid.
 Why?
 Because it's an admirable quality, dude.

  But by the same token.....if you are expecting more from Mr. Laird you are mistaken.  When you get into one of these scenarios with him it's plain hopeless.

  Do I have direct experience?  No.   Not on a personal level.
  But I can tell you I've witnessed more than one of these lockdowns in connection with the other half of the past partnership.

  Would I sum the guy up as a jerk?  No.  One label wouldn't cover what this is.   

[Shredder]

Oh, right. Fugitoid.

Well, Shredder's not one to be bashing anybody. He's too nice a fellow for that, in spite of his name.

Also should have added that the flame pit is like a barbeque, too much flame and everything becomes dry, burnt and inedible, just enough heat makes things crunchy on the outside and juicy in the middle. In other words, there's nothing like a good debate, and discussion to clear things up, but not if it's an endless argument with name-calling and belittling the enem-- er, the opposing view. 

Havn't checked this in a while, but that's more or less how I felt.  I guess I'll come up with a new term.  Anger Overload.  You read too much negativity, everyone seems to be missing a point you think is pretty clear(not just me, other people had their own points to try and make) and boom.   One post and the negativity just over loads.

I said my peace to Peter on the blog, even though I still think he shouldn't have gone after dawn so much.  People post stupid things in anger and my guess is dawn regretted that as soon as it happened.  I've done some stupid things in my life, too ..

[Gobbledygook]

-Anyone mind if the New guy takes a crack?

Okay Here it goes..

Dawn makes a very valid point in her postings on Peter's Blog.  Peter has done a few outlandish things with the TMNT in V4. (Like April being created by a Kirby Crystal Pencil.) That was totally random and crazy.

-You see everyone, the thing about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is that they have sooooo many different groups of fans on soooo many different levels of fandom. 

-There is one thing that the TMNT have never had officially, and that is a TARGET AUDIENCE. 

Fan Audience #1
It all started with the original B & W comic in 1984 which was gritty, and dark.  Fans of the original comics fit the more adult/teen Target Audience Demographic.

Fan Audience #2
1988 Cartoon and Playmates toys were wacky and goofier than the original comics.Splinter's origin differed in the show, and the Foot Soldiers were robots to cut down the violence. -Child Target Audience Demographic.

Fan Audience #3
1989 Archie TMNT Adventures Comics were somewhat related to the animated t.v. show, but went off a smidge on their own story arc. -Child/preteen Target Audience Demographic.

Fan Audience #4
1996 Image Comics TMNT were super dark and really gritty as well as violent.  -Adult Target Audience Demographic.  (You can also include the comics by Bisley and Eastman.)

Fan Audience #5
The Live Action Films.  We all love em' and know em'. All Ages Target Audience Demographic.

Fan Audience #6
TMNT Gamers, there have been a lot of Turtles games, but they have all been around a E-10. -All Ages Target Audience Demographic.

Fan Audience #7
2003-current 4kids toon' this is a whole new breed of turtles fan, a new generation even.  Sorry no Bebop and Rocksteady! Child/Preteen Target Audience Demographic.

Fan Audience #8
The elite TMNT Uber fan!  (That would be most of us.) They buy, read, watch, collect, live, eat, and breathe everything TMNT related.  Sure there are some things of the TMNT universe that aren't as good as others, but they collect em' anyways.  Yup even the Christmas Special VHS!

The point is, Since TMNT has never had an OFFICIAL Target Audience, it's a franchise with endless possibility.  You just have to pick and choose what part you love the most.  It's okay to admit what you like and don't like about the TMNT, especially since there are so many dimensions of the Turtles. There is bound to be something you do like, and something you don't like. I think we can all agree that there has been something that we didn't like at one time or another about many of our favorite franchises.  So maybe Peter Laird didn't like the NEW STAR TREK, he is still a fan of the original.  So much so it inspired a TMNT/Star Trek Playmates figure crossover.

Shredder, I don't think you should bail on TMNT all together, because you know that it will always have a place in your heart as well as ours.  You can't always put the creators on a pedestal, simply because they are human too.  Granite, they did create something great, but they are people too.  You are an avid member of this forum and TMNT Community and everyone here appreciates you.  The fact that you care so much means that you are a huge fan.  You should maintain your fandom for your favorite version of the TMNT, no one will hate you for it.  Dawn too.  I have my favorites also, as do we all!  I like to believe that the NEXT MUTATION never happened, but that's just me. lol. 

-Though the creators, writers, or artists may let you and others down about the franchise, the idea of the Turtles; their concept of family, ninjitsu, stealth, their personalities, and wise cracks will always be forever...

Who knows, maybe one day you'll be writing the comics!   

[WolfofMibu]

I have tried to stay out of all of these topics but re-reading this I have to agree with a few people and this is the flame pit and I want to have my say too.

I remember when this thread was originally posted on Peter's blog. I had been kind of on the fence about the new Star Trek film myself and had been excited to come home and be able to write out a long reply to him about it and was  horrified when I saw that a majority of people had once again taken an opportunity to attack Peter and I was sorely tempted to jump into the fray guns blazing so to say and defend him, but I tired to hold my peace to bite my tongue as I do so often with so many people so I just walked away.

I have been doing that with this fandom for too long and I am getting rather sick of it.

You know if I had created something that I loved as much as Peter loves Turtles and I kept having the same like 15 people attack me for EVER SINGLE THING THAT I DO FOR THE FRANCHISE I would get annoyed to.

I honestly don't know if people expect Peter to be super human, or immune to consistent snide, back handed remarks about him, his friends and his creation, but I don't except him to be. In fact I have a ridiculous amount of respect for the man for the amount of absolute bull he TAKES from the people in this fandom. 

I have seen everything from making fun of his choices, the way he looks, the way he talks, he friends, his interests, his ideas, anything. People would blame him for the freakin' economy and World War 2 if they could. I have even seen some idiots make rather ill stated death threats against him and Mirage Studios because Turtles isn't turning out the way they want it in there own little world.

Live with it. There are things about the fandom I don't like too. And I have actually told most of Mirage what they are, but it doesn't mean I have to harp about it every 15 minutes and then whine when people get sick of listening to my bull.

I don't know Dawn maybe she didn't deserve the attack but the sad fact is the minority of the fandom that harasses Peter is what caused this. This group that seems to think they have more right to decide what to do with the property then the CREATOR does.

Also if you want respect from someone, treat them the way you wish to be treated. I also love the number of people that jump ALL over him and then cry when he tells them to bugger off. If you can't take what you dish out, keep your mouth shut.

I am pretty much done not. Not with Turtles I will continue to adore them for the rest of my life, but this fandom drives me farther and farther out of it every single day by acting like immature brats.

And I am done backing down. I am not turning my back anymore and I am going to say my say.

Thank you.

[Raphs_Girl]

Mibu, I love you.  You have eloquently written things that have also been in my heart but I havn't been able to put into words. You are so right. If people don't like things that Peter is doing with the fandom, they either need to buckle down and accept that it is HIS franchise, not theirs...and if they can't do that, then maybe it's time for them to get involved with another fandom. Because that's what being in a fandom is about, enjoying and sharing the happiness that that fandom brings you. 

There are a few things that I don't necessarily agree with or like within the TMNT fandom. But I love the Turtles too darn much to ever give them up for something petty like that. 

Rock on Peter