Does Anyone Know...

[TurtleNinja]

Anything about making websites with frames?

I'm trying to revamp my websites, and I've wanted to learn frames for a long time, but I'm pretty pathetic when I try to read a manual. Even when I do exactly what it says, it still doesn't turn out.

I found a site that has the html codes, but doesn't say how to use them. I've tried nosing around and figuring it out myself, right down to resorting to a rarely-used HTML program(I generally do it by hand, yeah, I'm old-fashioned that way ) to try and figure out the codes, but even their examples failed to work.

Most I was able to figure out was how to set the width of a frame. Nothing else I wanted to do with my design worked.

So...I'm wondering if anybody out there can help me figure it out. Nothing overly fancy, just a simple frameset with some buttons I made and the like will do. And if frames are too complicated, or more than I need, then maybe some tables? I've apparently seen sites that LOOK like they use frames, but they're not frames, they're tables.

Something. Anything. I'm a minimalist when it comes to computers and websites, sure, but I'd like to do something a little bit nicer than my usual, boring design.

[Phoenix]

Frames have come and gone with website design (as does most website design). May want to try either a table or go all out with CSS.

[TurtleNinja]

Heh...I noticed some of the sites that had frames, also had CSS, and I know less about that than I ever did about frames. Even so...whatever works. *shrugs*

And right after I made my original post, I realized that what I'm really looking for...is a sidebar that I can keep on the side of each page, so it's easier for people to just...click on a button and take them where they want, without having to click their back buttons or follow redundant links all over the place.

But thanks for the help. I can try looking into that, too. Just looking for something nice 'n new and spiffy to do for my sites.

[Brinatello]

Trust me, you do NOT want frames for your web site.  I wanted to do that and ended up pulling out what's left of my hair.  Mikey QM gave me a huge explanation of what to expect and I immediately deleted the entire project.  It's a real pain in the butt.

[TurtleNinja]

When I asked ages ago(I think I might've still been in college when I first asked about this), a lot of peeps I talked to told me the same thing, that frames were a big pain in the butt and not to bother. Frustrated me to death. I didn't want to hear they were a pain, I needed to know what was involved and decide myself if it was worth it or not, and I kept getting the same answer, the same run around in circles. Eventually gave up on it when the comp died for two years, and when I came back and did websites again, I did a different layout and forgot about frames.
 
Now I'm wanting to revamp again, do something nice, and after looking through various codes and crud last night and getting a nice big headache for my trouble, I can see why they told me it was a pain. If there's no real simple, easy way to do frames that's not gonna drive me crazy, then I'll find some other way to do it if I can. I'm just real limited on HTML knowledge, and looking for something simple, but nice for the revamps.

Something that'll keep a sidebar or some buttons on the pages to the left, make it nice and neat and not so...blah.

If frames are out, frames are out. What about tables? Would tables do the trick?

[Phoenix]

Tables would definitely do the trick.

What I normally do is grab a template (FREE) and just play with it. I like to have a starting basis for a table or an idea on how to do it. They're not as difficult as frames, but they're not cake either.

http://www.freewebs.com/random-act/

This was all done in tables. You're more than welcome to use the code.

[TurtleNinja]

Oh, cool, thank you!

Thank god tables will do the trick. I've been going completely insane trying to figure out how to make the site look nice and neat without doing something complicated that'll drive me crazy, or resorting to my usual design.

Thanks you guys! Thanks for warning me about frames(heh, kinda was afraid of that anyways when I saw all the code and how complicated it was), and if tables will work, then thankie thankie, a million thankies.

Manuals are of no help to me, but friends always are. I figured somebody somewhere out there would know how to get it to look nice without the frustration and hassle.

[Phoenix]

And if something doesn't work and you're screaming at the top of your lungs... send the files my way

[Brinatello]

Now, tables I use all the time.  I use them for everything at my web site, for all blocks of text and images.  They're good to use when you want your text at 100% on-screen and not causing a horizontal scroll bar.  I know no one likes to scroll from left to right to read text.  With tables, you can set it to the width of your screen, yet, it'll automatically fit any size screen.  Also, with tables, I'm able to keep track of colors, fonts, and hyperlinks.  It's not floating out on the page.  It's in a table where I can choose what I want to do with it.

As for HTML coding, I can only do so much with it.  I took one class and failed it.  The teacher was a real jerk.  I took the same class with a better teacher and passed!  It was for Front Page 98.  The nice thing about this program is it does a large majority of the HTML coding for you.  Updated versions are out there, but since I haven't touched my site in ages (like I SHOULD!), I'm not going to invest in something I won't use.  Front Page 98 gets the job done, and I'm very comfortable with it.

[Donatello]

Yes... I agree with everyone else here, that tables are what everyone today uses.  Frames are yesterday's trend from the 90's.  

If you really want to be hip, dressing up the tables with CSS and PHP format is the latest trend.  But, I agree... PHP is a whole different ballpark.  I have yet to figure that code out, since it's not like HTML. It's also best used for message boards like this, and sites that use databanks to display lots of info.  

But CSS is pretty easy to use once you figure it out.  Especially the style sheets.     If you later get curious about that, let us know and we'll show you too.

[TurtleNinja]

lol, oh, man, I'm not trying to be completely hip. Good god, if I did that, I think my brain would blow up from my trying. I don't need to do anything overly fancy with all the flash animations and whatnot. I'm not that good at webpaging, and I know it.

All I want to do is something simple, but a little different.

CSS I didn't know about 'till the other night when I was looking through code and the one site I have bookmarked with all the HTML codes listed on it, so I know less about that than I ever did of frames. Yeah, I'll admit it, I'm way behind, but that's what I get for not updating my sites in 3-5 years.

I did manage to get what I was working on looking really nice with tables(thanks PG!). Took me most of the afternoon, but I got it working the way I like it. For now, I'll stick with tables for what I'm doing, and if I decide again to jazz things up even more, I'll drop a line about CSS.

Thank god I didn't stubbornly go ahead with frames. I was frustrated enough tweaking the tables to get it to look right, I don't want to know what I would've done with any further attempts at frames.

However, I do have one teensy little question about the table format...it's not gonna be of big consequence to me one way or another. The page I really wanted looking nice was my homepage, and that's done, just to add a few things here and there. I got the basic layout done.

The thing about tables...if I want to keep the buttons on the side for linking, do I have to put the code in for each page? I'm suspecting I do, so if I do, I might just do it for a few pages, and for other things like fanfics that I have planned, I'll leave that as normal(since those don't need many bells and whistles anyways, lol).

Like, say I click on my "Fanfiction" button. It doesn't look like the table carries over, so if I wanted all the pretty layout for the main Fanfiction page, I'd have to copy it. That's what it looks like to me, just wanting a little verification to be sure. It's not a huge deal. Now that I've got it set the first time, it's an easy copy/paste.

Thanks for your help, guys, it's helping me out tons!

[Donatello]

Heh.. that's okay.  

I just like CSS cause it makes the text and URL links look uniform, and adds cool looking scroll bars to my website.

But to get the same table layout format on all your webpages, I copy and paste the same table HTML code in every page.  Or resave that page under the new page's name.  Then I go back and change the 'content' part so the header is about fanfiction, or fanart, etc, and then put in the new info and change the links.

If you look over my TMNT page, you can see that (except for my fanfic and fanart pages, which I still need to switch over to the 'new look').  It's all made out of the same tables code I copied and pasted in the new blank pages.  Then I changed the header's and body contents inbetween to make it different for whatever that page is about.

[TurtleNinja]

That's what I figured. I figured it wasn't automatic. I pretty much did the same thing, especially considering how long it took me to figure out the table codes to begin with. I've done various little layouts, slight differentiations on how I wanted it to look, all of which took me a few hours to get coded right. It's real easy to just copy/paste rather than redo the code once you've got it figured out, you're right about that.

It's nothing fancy, nothing complicated, but it certainly looks much better than my old design. Hopefully I'll get it all straight and ready and just...upload away for a whole new look.

Fanfics, though, I leave those as they are. The way my tables are, I'm not sure my lengthy fics would look right, so I just took a cue from one of the fanfic sites I frequent and just leave it as a plain page, rather than putting tables to every last page. It's easier for me to do that, anyways. Table the pages I need to, and things like fics, I've just left alone.

Tables aren't easy, but they aren't as complicated as frames. At least in an evening or afternoon, I could get it looking right with tables. Whew.