TMNT and the S word....

[Shredder]

Well, interspecies relations might be a better term for it..

For those lucky enough to get in to the Comic con this weekend, let alone attend, Peter had a bunch of Isue #26's for sale.  I won't spoil the story for everyone, but oneo f the letters at the end  I thought was a rather stupid question...

The user questioned if they arn't blood related, is there any chance of a homesexuality relationship between the turtles themselves....Apparently in Japan, the subject isn't as taboo as it is here, and is considered a giving in to natural urges, so Splinter might have taught it to them being from Japan himself...

I don't get into my thoughts on these things.....but I'll delve into it quickly here.   If there is some grand plan for us all, you'd have thought someone would have made the male/female parts interchangeable....but since that isn't the case, I think it was meant to be male with female and female with male...  But, then again, the gay relationships have apparently been around since roman times so who am I to have thoughts on these matters?

Anyway, point being... it's tough enough to  get friends and familly into the comic with it's weird idea of mutant turtles battling evil human ninjas, and talking 'brains'.  Having male turtles kissing each other would bring the guy 'cool' factor way down....

I really hope that Peter meant he has mulled over it in the past about weather the turtles are blood related and should be d ating females of other species, and not weather they should have homosexual relationships

But, if you could design female characters of other species for the guys to interact with, w hat would they look like?

Ok, End stupid question rant

[Leonardo]

Like the LotR fan message boards where this topic has come up....
It's my belief people will find whatever sub-message in popular culture comics, shows, or movies that they bring to it. Whether that's intimate relations or other things.
Peter has never written it into the comics, or any others working on TMNT media that "Yes, they are gay." I don't even see enough overly blatant "hints" to presume this, either. I think if that was the direction they wanted a character or characters to go in, they would have it clearly Be part of the story. Like Marvel did when Northstar became a publically gay character, but they had already laid very clear groundwork about the character before hand--there was no big surprise there.
I just don't see it in TMNT. And maybe that's me.
But there are people who want to see the TMNT has having intimate relations among themselves, or having gay relationships with others, they are going to find the signs it's there.
For myself, I just see them as four brothers. Even if just by bond, which in Japan was just as important as blood such as the adoption of a son into another family without a son. So I do not think they would not engage in such things. I am sure some jokes would come up, but not them actually having those kinds of relationships.

Did Peter have any sort of reply?

[Shredder]

Here's the part of the note that deals with it.... I'm surprised this part of it even made it to print..


>>

Also, are the Turtles actually blood related, or do they just consider themselves family? Maby there's no way of knowing, but if they arn't actually related, is there any chance of a homosexual relationship?  With no female companionship, except for Mikey, and no girl turtles allowed, something I totally agree with by the way, it seems likley the Turtles to turn to each other, like in prison or the navy.  I was reading the book "Rising Sun" by Michael Critchon, and it claims that in Japanese society, homesexuality isn't seen as taboo, it's just seen as a response to natural urges.  Since Splinter grew up in Japan and seemed to be influenced by the culture, he may have even encouraged such activity..

Peters response..

I've mulled over the same thing in the pa st.  But except for Mikeys recent seemingly star crossed affair with Regenta, I haven't really dealt with the turtles sexuality because I was not all that interested in that aspect of their lives, and in all honest, I have not been a ble to find a very satisfying way to deal with it, one that makes logical sense and isn't too cheesy.  Maby someday...

>>>>

[Brinatello]

This kind of subject would be considered more in real life, not in a fictional world.  Animals will go after anything they can get.  It's not that they're gay, it's natural behavior to go after another when in heat.  Besides, I can't see Peter writing this way about our guys.  For one thing, it would NOT do well to the audience of 10 and under.  And then if any homophobic parents got wind of it...uh, yeah, it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

*looks around*  Is this okay to talk about?    

[Shredder]

Heh, I hope so.

I didn't think about the audience age.  Although, I doubt it's really meant f or kids under 10 years of age.  Not that it's full of violence or anything, but I don't think they would find it that interesting...

But if Pete was seriously considering the idea, here's hoping he takes that into consideration, heh.

[Jephael]

I can just picture all the fan-girls screaming bloody murder at the idea of their favorite boys in green turning out to be gay.

Though you gotta admit, it wouldn't be the first time such a thing has been done to a world famous icon. Even Superman himself has been rideculed for some of his own homosexual tendancies, and lest we forget the Batman/Robin controversey.

[OnnaRaphael]

I'll admit I'm a slash fan but TMNT slash... ugh it makes me sick.

I have three sisters and a brother, none of which I'm blood related to.  Still, they're my family, the thought of... ugh it's just gross.  

Some people will see whatever they want though.  I have friends who seriously slash every fandom they get into, no matter whether there is a hint there or not.  I at least need a hint!  So whether there's anything there or not, some people will see it.  (Particularly between Leo and Raph because a constant theme in a lot of slash is rivalry = secret love.  Just look at the mass amounts of Harry/Draco fics.)

This is all just my view on these things though, and anyone who knows me well knows it's a very strong view.  *L*

[Aignatius]

It looks like Peter is saying that if any of the TMNT characters were gay, he'd have put elements in the characters that would have made it so. Peter doesn't seem apologetic asbout the other decisions he's made about his characters, why would he hide that, even if it started protests from his fans?
The TMNT started out as underground characters, why wouldn't he go back to that, and make things the way he wanted them? He can afford to do things his way...

I know I (and others) have been misunderstood and in turn probably misunderstood what people have said on this subject in the past, but my problem was with some assumptions that a particular character was gay just because he was portrayed as such in a fanfic. Fanfics are fanfics, and the official publications are official publications. Seems some folks in the past got them confused, because the issue wasn't clarified, I don't know.

I've been to panel discussions where some of the comics creators talked about finding a particular audience among the gay folks by having gay characters in their books. Since it wasn't common, they ended up having a bigger fan base then if they had mainsteam elements in their stories.

It goes without saying that it isn't necessarily a character's mannerisms, or what colors they wear, or the way they talk, or even a political movement, that make the character "gay".
The bottom line is, it's whether or not they are pursuing and/or have a homosexual relationship.
So, if a character's creator wanted to point out that a character's gay, then he'll have the character either come out and say it in lieu of a conversation in a story, or he will have the character depicted as having a sexual relationship with someone of the same gender.

Hopefully I've made that clear, this time around.  

[Aignatius]

Forgot to add, as far as suitable female companions, I saw some possibilities in the course of the story in TMNT Vol. 4, where the Turtles can move freely about because aliens and unusual creatures are becoming commonplace, though chances are they will run into the same problems as interracial couples in some parts of the world. It looks like the environment to interact more easily has now been set up to make such relationships with humans more believable in that created world.

[Shredder]

I think I read somewhere that either Peter, Kevin, or both said that the turtles will not have human relationships.  Can't remember where I might have seen it though..

[Mily]

Well, I don't think ANY of them are possibly even remotely gay, well I'm judging by what I've watched from the show. I don't get the vibe from any of them, especially not Don, he get's crushes like you wouldn't believe. Mikey just hits on anything female, which is kinda funny, even Leo must have had a crush on Karai, and Raph, I can see him liking someone too.

They haven't been paired up yet because this is a kids show, they can't just go and give them girlfriends, it would mess everything up. Also I don't think the idea that they could have human girlfriends is so out of the question. I mean if April didn't have Casey she'd probably go for Don.

As for drawing the female species, I've already tried that..., heh, ; thanks to roleplaying,

[Aignatius]

I think I read somewhere that either Peter, Kevin, or both said that the turtles will not have human relationships.  Can't remember where I might have seen it though..

Me neither. The things I've seen and heard on the subject have been somewhat vague. Not to mention the dissension between the two creators over the Venus element. Yes, I'll mention Venus, sorry Peter, but this isn't an Orwellian society where you can simply "erase" people... (not that I expect Peter to read any of this, but I say it nonetheless)

[Mindy]

Remember, what's taboo in one culture may not be in another. If the creators placed the characters in Japan, instead of America, I could see the TMNT guys being much more affectionate to one another since homosexuality isn't shown as such a big deal on the media over there. However, the creators placed the Turtles in America where homosexuality in the media isn't as welcomed. Maybe in the comics, they could get away with it but definitely not in the cartoons or even the movies.

Edit:

Shellback Mountain

, anyone?  

[Buslady]

If I were to create a female character for them, they would be human.  There is nothing wrong with human/tmnt relations. turtle body ~ human spirit,  get past the physical part.
period.

[OnnaRaphael]

There is nothing wrong with human/tmnt relations. turtle body ~ human spirit,  get past the physical part.
period.

Wonderfully put!  It wasn't until last year that I even realized people had serious issues with that.  I still don't understand it but to each their own I suppose.

[WolfofMibu]

Wonderfully put!  It wasn't until last year that I even realized people had serious issues with that.  I still don't understand it but to each their own I suppose.

For some reason (that baffles me) some people veiw the guys as animals... 0.o I personally have NEVER looked at them this way and don't understand why people do. *shrugs* To each there own but I find it kind of insulting. But sense they look at them as animals they find it weird that people would love them in the way a lot of us do....

I don't know overall how Mirage feels about human/Turtle relationships, but I know they are trying to save them selves a lot of grief by staying away from them.

Just look at the nutcase that wrote Laird demanding he remove there tails because they look like weiners.....    BLAH!

[OnnaRaphael]

For some reason (that baffles me) some people veiw the guys as animals... 0.o I personally have NEVER looked at them this way and don't understand why people do. *shrugs* To each there own but I find it kind of insulting. But sense they look at them as animals they find it weird that people would love them in the way a lot of us do....

I don't know overall how Mirage feels about human/Turtle relationships, but I know they are trying to save them selves a lot of grief by staying away from them.

Just look at the nutcase that wrote Laird demanding he remove there tails because they look like weiners.....    BLAH!

Two responses!  

Some people will never see past the physical, so if they physically look like animals well then they are to them.  I've read people saying that the turtles wouldn't even be interested in a human woman, they wouldn't know what to do with them, blah blah blah.  I don't understand that one bit, especially since they've shown that they can at least appreciate an attractive woman's appearance.  I'd just assume that would mean they'd be interested in one.  So maybe these people are saying they'd be more interested in turtles?  THAT is where it gets weird to me.  Though I admit the mental image of Mikey drooling over a magazine add with pet turtles is vaguely amusing.  (I don't know why it's Mikey.)

Second response on the tails.  That... ugh!  I bought some of the Ninja Action figures recently and was giddy when I found out they had tails.  Being a photo geek like I am I took pictures and posted them in my LJ.  EVERY comment I got was dirty.  These were comments by adults.  My next post was something along the lines of:  "I see why they removed their tails.  I mean if you guys are adults, what the **** are the kids thinking?"  I sort of wish they'd been offended by that but I don't think they were.  -_-  I admit I can get dirty minded but come on people!  Be a little more mature than that!

Um... sorry about the rant... I do that a lot.

[CriticalCrittles]

O0o0oh, a slash topic! *giggles* I'll have fun with this one!

Jk, seriously though....I don't mind slash at all, but there's an issue with it for me. To me, something can't be slashed if it's not implied in the show. For example, my dear fellow Venture friends and I, creepy as we be, have lots of joking fun slashing Dr. Venture and Brock on Venture brothers (well mainly just Dr. V dreamin of Brock on that one, I think Brock all for the chicks though keke), as well as some other characters on that show, because there is all kinds of implied pairings on there! Even the creators themselves have admitted to implying it, and they have said they are amused by the slash we create as a result of it lol (how awesome are they?! XD) But if I didn't see it in the show though, I wouldn't just randomly be like omg this person would SO do this person because that would be hot.

Just as when I see TMNT slash anywhere, I kinda cringe at it. I seriously can't see it happening at all, even if I try really hard to (for some unknown reason lol). And as for the guys loving only turtles or they can't love humans or whatever, I really don't understand the problem. I mean to me, they are only turtles in body, their mind and spirit are 100% human. They think, act and feel just like any other human would, so why wouldn't they be attracted to another human?

And the tail thing? I think them having tails is cute, people just have sick minds    What's up with that?

Of course after all I've rambled here, don't take me too seriously, cuz I AM a slash fan, and admit to being not as huge of a TMNT fan as the rest of you lol....but hey, I still like it!    Sorry I rambled off topic into Venture lol, you see what my true fandom is   Forgive me!

[Mily]

Well out of all of my action figures I was very surprised that the ninja action ones had tails, I thought it was kinda funny and interesting. I don't mind the tails..., but I prefer the turtles not having them..., maybe because my mind is deep in the gutter and I know it, and I understand why they took them away in the new and the old show, plus the movies. Because as mature as some of us are, parents just don't want their kids seeing it, because a kid will get the wrong idea no matter what.

And I already said I thought human/turtle relationships could probably work, heck if they created female turtles it could also work, I've already tried drawing it and it seems plausible.

[Jephael]

I think them having tails is cute, people just have sick minds    What's up with that?!

Eh, heh heh. Well lets just put it this way, I once knew a couple kids who got a kick out of the Archie comic book adaptions of the first and second movies, which also had the tails drawn in. One of those kids was me and the other one was my cousin.

[WolfofMibu]

I personally think the Turtles look more natural with tails.... because well... Turtles have tails *laughs*


I was surprised the first time I saw the Mirage comics with them, with tails, but never really though they were anything but tails.... *laughs*

I actually think the tails are kind of sexy  

[Brinatello]

I actually think the tails are kind of sexy  

*smirk* Amen, sister.  

[Dejablue]

if Peter and/Kevin wants the turtles to be gay they've got a lot of ground to cover and I mean a hell of a lot of ground.  I will vomit if the turtles end up humping each other out of the clear blue sky.

[Kismet]

The only thing that I've gathered from Peter's response was that he's given it consideration, but doesn't feel comfortable delving into it in canon, nor in interview.

And fan's speculation of their sexuality, or what the fan thinks their sexuality should be is just that- speculation. And personal views. It's truly impossible to say, for none of us can truly grasp the experience of being four sole males of a species in a world dominated by a very opinionated 'supremest' race. We (individually and as a society) judge and very obnoxiously, inconsiderately express these judgements over our own people based on matters that don't effect us personally (such as sexual orientation). The TMNT don't have pressures or influence of society. They have each other. Whether they're sexually attracted to only reptilian anthros, any anthros, humans, each other- it's simply impossible for us, with our own life-experience conformed and personal views, to make even an educated guess as to something as complex as the sexuality of a limited race.

To be honest, I've found that when topics like this crop up, it turns into people expressing their personal opinions and why the fictional characters of choice should follow them. Laird is doing the smart thing by avoiding any confirmation on this topic. People are so protective over their ideals, any outright statement would most likely result in a decrease of sales.

[Jephael]

I actually take offense sometimes when a non-fan makes a gay joke about the TMNT. My roommate did that a lot last year and it made me very uncomfortable simply because I felt it as an extension of what I thought he was saying about me, not just the Turtles.

[Kismet]

Exactly. That's a prime example of a fan using a fandom as an extension of their own preferences and phobias. We often imprint ourselves on things and people that we care about.

[Dejablue]

well their tails DO look like their genitals if you're looking at it from a weird angle.  I mean you can't deny that.  sure it would be silly to remove that but if their tails couldn't be mistaken as a ding a ling then they would have been in the cartoons.

[Aignatius]

At least you know for certain they are males. They don't seem to be all that worried about it, anyway.  

[Mindy]

If this has come to anyone's attention, but I believe this question has been answered in semi-canon/canon? form - Tales of the TMNT #41, I believe. The whole Leo/Radical romance and from other fans' responses that it was hinted the two formed a physical romance. This is all speculation on my part; I haven't actually read the issue.


"S" word??? You mean.... socks? Would they wear socks?!