It sucks being new

[Dark Angel]

Hey folks,
 DA here. I'm still new here but I have to share something. I'm not feeling welcome here at all. The only ones who actually take the time to chat with me is Brintello & Japhael. But the rest of you seem pretty stuck up and full of yourselves. I mean that in the way of, you choose your circle of friends and don't let anyone else in cause it's too much trouble to say Hi there ,etc,etc.

I noticed this in a few threads where I support missing Donatello and everyone ignoire me posts and comforts their friends. That's pretty darn selfish and patheic in my eyes. How would you like that? I know this place isn't super-super active still after the *insert swear here* I went through with a couple of TMNT boards I thouht this place was a bit better. But it feels like the same thing, only exculsive members who've been here from the begining are accepted.

and something I never let bug me till I noticed I keep getting some unwanted mesages about my TMNT site...I'll be honest I'm tired of seeing a few fans who ( I won't name who )like they are the  TMNT VA's personal friends,their body guards, their personal assistants. That they must talk to them always, be seen with them, know everything about them.They need to quit it because rather they realize it or not they show how arrogent they are. In my eyes I see it as ,those fans show how they don't want the attention to be drawn away from them.

And yes I admit this Scott is a very close friend of mine but it's not the center of my world and nor is TMNT. I have school and stuff to take care of.

I just couldn't hold in those feelings in anymore I had to let them out.This is what the TMNT fans have shown me and that is what I had to say.

and since nobody really cares what I truely think or feel and will most likely just flame my opinions instead of reading the thread again and trying to understand, I had a really rough time online when I join forums of a popular show. I'm always too late to join and too late to be accepted so after years of this crap from Sailor Moon, to Teansformers to TMNT I decided I won't be unheard. I won't be a troll, an online bully nor a flamestarter but I will say this when new people post , post/reply back. Don't be too busy to talk to new people cause your comfortable with the friends you already have open up to new people too.


---DA

[Michaelangelo]

Hiya, I'm going to jump in and reply to this... mainly because there was an IM just recently where we talked about simalar stuff.  And I just have to stand up when things like this are being said, and I don't feel they are really all that just.

Hey folks,
 DA here. I'm still new here but I have to share something. I'm not feeling welcome here at all. The only ones who actually take the time to chat with me is Brintello & Japhael. But the rest of you seem pretty stuck up and full of yourselves. I mean that in the way of, you choose your circle of friends and don't let anyone else in cause it's too much trouble to say Hi there ,etc,etc.

When people join the forum, and say hi I always post a reply saying "Welcome to TMNT-L" and how I'll like to be there if they need me.  I don't ignore people's post and read most every post on the forum that I can keep up with.  Some topics start off in away where I read through it the first few times and see it doesn't obtain to things that truely interest me so I don't reply to every topic on the forum, nor is anyone required to.  Though I know that I've made friends through TMNT-L with people who are new.   And you're not all that new anymore, you've been here since November this board was created in September.

I noticed this in a few threads where I support missing Donatello and everyone ignoire me posts and comforts their friends. That's pretty darn selfish and patheic in my eyes. How would you like that? I know this place isn't super-super active still after the spit I went through with a couple of TMNT boards I thouht this place was a bit better. But it feels like the same thing, only exculsive members who've been here from the begining are accepted.

People talk as they want, some people don't jump into the "I miss this Turtle" posts too much.  Not because they don't care, but because that stuff doesn't hold their interest.  It's not fair to the full board for you to say everyone ignoires me because one, your most recent post in that Donatello topic is as of right now the last post in it.  Two not everyone reads the TV forum, some people are here for the Lounge, others are here for the Events area, and some are here for the fanfics.  Not everyone reads every part of the forum, so it's not that they're ignoreing you, it's that they didn't see your post.   Some people don't even come to TMNT-L to post, but just to read what's being said.   And you know, that's alright.  No one is required to reply to anyone.  Infact a joke thread going on right now is about topics dieing and Shredder picking on the fact that he's good at killing a thread (being the last posted) and asked if others are going through that, not in the same manner you just said... but joking showing that he realizes this happen.  It happens to me a lot, even on Ninja Turtle Network, I posted and the topic would die off at some point or another.  I didn't get mad at anyone for not replying because I don't except it, I enjoy a good talk when one comes up, but if people don't reply it's their choice.

and something I never let bug me till I noticed I keep getting some unwanted mesages about my TMNT site...I'll be honest I'm tired of seeing a few fans who ( I won't name who )like they are the  TMNT VA's personal friends,their body guards, their personal assistants. That they must talk to them always, be seen with them, know everything about them.They need to quit it because rather they realize it or not they show how arrogent they are. In my eyes I see it as ,those fans show how they don't want the attention to be drawn away from them.

This is hitting a lot of fans on the board, because there's a huge group of us that go to meet the voice actors.  And the last thing ANY of us are is body guards, true we want to be friends with the folks but is that a problem to want to be able to make friends with people who are doing your dream job or working on something you truely enjoy.   And not only that, but are people you find you do get along with when you meet them in person?  Is that such a crime that you're telling these people, including myself that we're arrogent?  I'm sorry, but everyone is in to what they like to do.  And one thing I enjoy doing is helping people get a chance to also meet and make friends with these guests, and shareing the event with others who like to read about it.  If you don't like those types of topics stay away from Events and Meet-ups and TMNT Memories.  Those are the areas those topics are most brought up in, and they're made for that.

And yes I admit this Scott is a very close friend of mine but it's not the center of my world and nor is TMNT. I have school and stuff to take care of.

And what?  The people who talk about that other stuff don't have lifes?  Gee thanks.   I got a family that is in constant need of help, disablities, including myself.  Though I still pull through and am able to help where I'm needed and I even help many friends with problems.  I've even taken the time of my life to be an ear for you many of times.  Others I know who do the events are going to College, still in High School, working big jobs, and raiseing families.  Everyone on this board has lifes outside of TMNT.  

Now I'll like to bring one of your quotes right down here those fans show how they don't want the attention to be drawn away from them.  Now after reading that line and stop and think about this... are those folks standing there complaining when ever things go quiet for them?  Are those people making posts complaining that no one cares.  Are those people jumping up saying that you have to pay attention to them?  Just because people like to do events and follow their dreams, and share what they can does NOT in any case make it so they want attention to be drawn to them.   I for one have not seen this from any of the folks on this forum.  Infact the only one begging for attention right now seems to be this post here, saying pay attention to me, stop ignoreing me... when I know I have not ignored you.  

Do you think everyone here is really all that full of themselves?   Do you think we're sitting here constantly waiting for our friends to post topics?   I look at topic titles and what they're about than decide if I'm going to reply, not the person who posted it... that doesn't matter, if a good talk comes up I will reply.  Or if an issue that needs to be talked about (like this one) I'll be replying.  

I just couldn't hold in those feelings in anymore I had to let them out.This is what the TMNT fans have shown me and that is what I had to say.

and since nobody really cares what I truely think or feel and will most likely just flame my opinions instead of reading the thread again and trying to understand, I had a really rough time online when I join forums of a popular show. I'm always too late to join and too late to be accepted so after years of this crap from Sailor Moon, to Teansformers to TMNT I decided I won't be unheard. I won't be a troll, an online bully nor a flamestarter but I will say this when new people post , post/reply back. Don't be too busy to talk to new people cause your comfortable with the friends you already have open up to new people too.

I am not here to flame, I'm here to show another side of the picture.  Are people suppose to just read over and over, and not say how they feel about it?

Here's how I feel... and I'm going to be honest

I feel hurt, because I have talked with you, I have been an ear, I have not ignored you, and I always felt I welcomed you.  Though, how is that type of friendship repaid?    You question me when I just IM you to say hi.   Saying why?  Than say it's weird that I just wanted to say hi, than question my friendship when I never ever did anything meant to really hurt you.   There's a way of saying thanks for being a friend.

I feel insluted knowing that I'm one of the people who do make friends with the voice actors, and yes I do like to help them out when they're around.  But I also help out the fellow fans around me, to meet the people that I meet.  I list every event, if I can go to them or not in the events area on this forum.  I list links to their personal web sites, I invite them here so that people can meet them.  I do not guard them or act like I'm better than any other fan, I just want to be friends with them for who they are... if I didn't get along with a VA in person I don't go out of my way to keep seeing them again.  I enjoy making friends, but not just because of their job but because they're wonderful people behind the job.  And it's insluting how you view and act like we're doing it for attention.   If we were doing it for attention we'd be doing a lot more for attention too.

I feel ignored, I have told you that I don't ignore you.  I have told you to please keep personal issues from coming to TMNT-L.  I have talked to you, trying to help see other peoples points of views to help with the problems.  Though instead, you post your personal issues with people on the forum.  You still go against people, for being who they are and wanting them to pay attention to you and do things your way.  But when it comes to you doing the same thing you're mad at them for, it's ok.  

I feel like I'm wasteing my time right now, because you're not going to care that I'm telling you this.  Infact it's going to be another 'you don't really care about me' replies.  

I have  tried.  I thought I was your friend, but it seems you have choosen who your friends are even when others do talk to you.  

You preach of things you're doing yourself.  If you want attention, which it seems you do... than maybe you should start topics of interest, without complaining about others.   If you think others want attentions because they like the VAs and other TMNT workers, than maybe you should look at yourself trying to get the interviews and stuff that you're doing.  You are in the same boat as a lot of other fans.  So please, stop and hear what you're saying... re read it yourself.  Who's your friends?  Only the people that always reply to you?  Or the people who do try and be there for you when they can?  Or both?

[Fugitoid]

I must say that was a rude awakening. I honestly took 10 mins to take a look at myself and see if I am a culprit in what you are saying. And I think I am guilty of it a little bit. In my defense, you did send me a private message a while back and I did reply back. However, I haven't heard back from you since.

As for the overall tone of the board, I can't say one way or the other. I try to keep tabs on things here @ TMNT-L, but it's hard for me to dedicate enough time for it. But believe me when I say that I'll take a serious look into this because normally I wouldn't be forcing my brain to think of an intelligent post at 1:30am. Especially since I need to be awake by 6:30am.

One thing I have noticed about boards in general is that new members typically take a while to get noticed. It's just the nature of forums because when you break it down, it's just a bunch of text messages. IMHO, it's hard to "humanize" a text message, and so it's easy to not reply to every message you see. On the other side of the coin, it's hard NOT to say hello back to someone else in person, even if it's a complete stranger. I can't tell you how many conversations I've gotten into at a bar in the line for the bathroom! But you don't have that on a forum. I know that's not how it should be, but sometimes you gotta be realistic and just take things for what they are.

One thing I will take away from this is myself and the mods need to do a better job of greeting in the new members. And recommending that they fill out the Introduction sticky topic (http://www.tmnt-l.com/index.php?topic=8), as well as you should if you still feel like you'd want to be part of TMNT-L.

[Raphael]

Might as well ring in on this one too.  I freely admit that I don't meet & greet everyone that joins the board. Maybe, as a moderator, I should...I don't know. It's certainly not anything personal against you, that's just what I'm like. Yes, I do reply more often to the folks I've known for a while, because I know how they'll react to comments I may make that could be interpreted as rude to other people (I posted a reply a while back that, to me, wasn't all that flippant but was interpreted that way...so I tend to try and avoid that).

As for your comment about the "Missing Donatello" thread, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. From reading Mike's response to you, I gather it is part of the "I feel so bad about what *** (insert TMNT character here, depending on the subject) is going through, they need a hug" series of topics that have been posted in the TV section for a while now. Frankly, I ignore all of those posts, so, once again, nothing personal.

It's the nature of a message board that cliques form and that not everyone will be responded to. To post a "You're all ignoring me" post is as much a cry for attention as the posts you are slamming from people who have met folks involved in the show.

[moronqueen]

It's the nature of a message board that cliques form and that not everyone will be responded to. To post a "You're all ignoring me" post is as much a cry for attention as the posts you are slamming from people who have met folks involved in the show.

I'll agree with Raph, there. And I'm sure not everyone looks at every single section of the board and reads every single thread. I know I sure as hell don't, and I know I've missed posts that were aimed at me. I figure if someone wants me to reply badly enough, they could just send one of the PM things and point it out to me.

Despite what you seem to think, we've all got lives outside of the board. I go for long periods of time without even looking at this thing, and I don't post every time I do look at it.  Just goes according to interest, as well as current mental ability. It's nothing personal. That's really just too bad if you don't like it, or anyone else for that matter.

Whining about it doesn't do any good, nor does it make any friends. Hope at least making that lovely post of yours made ya feel better.

[Onatello]

I'd have to generally agree with everyone here. Just because someone doesn't post a reply to your reply doesn't mean nobody reads it. I've been on both ends of the spectrum. Sometime somebody might read your post but is to busy to post, and can forget with doing other things, but that dosen't mean that they don't care.

[Leonardo]

Much good stuff has been said by others in reply to this.
As someone who's been part of the original TMNT-L list all the years back...I've seen a lot over the years.

You've probably heard you catch more flies with honey.

So if you want people (or to speak for me) to comment on your posts, you need nicely written posts that leave room for nice comments back. Think about principles of what makes for good conversations.
I agree with Raph, that like it or not, I tend to ignore posts that go on about "hugging" or "he's sooo hot", which I won't say is anything Wrong because it isn't--but I'm just not going to reply to them. I love posts that inspire good conversations about the episodes, or comics, or other events. Thought provoking.
But I do also enjoy silly fun posts that provide some memory of the days when we had a rather large "role playing" contingent that welcomed everyone's participation, with TMNT or other characters. As long as someone was not running roughshod over everyone else. And right now we have a couple of these fun threads going. Don't be afraid--join in!!

When it comes to those who've met Media people....and I met a lot back in the day when I was able to get to a lot more conventions. And on older boards and older threads, I posted a lot of stuff to share with others. Currently I can't get to the cons where these VAs or the Mirage folks are, so I have nothing new to share. And I don't expect anyone's that interested in pictures of those people from 8 or more years ago. hehehe
But when those who meet the Media people share all of the details of what they saw, heard, post pictures, post juicy details and spoilers--what is wrong with that? That's sharing so everyone can benefit!!
And I know for myself at least, over the years, I have taken on obtaining autographs or sketches for other fans who are unable to meet some of the people I have met numerous times (like Kevin Eastman and Stan Sakai, and back in the day when I used to see Gary Carlson and crew a lot). That's not "hogging" Media people or acting like someone "owns" them--that's helping other fans!
If the people who meet Media people come back and post things like "well I heard things I won't tell the rest of you" then okay, that's being an arrogant snot. My feeling is don't say a word if you're not going to slap a Spoiler on it and share it with the rest of the community. We're all "fellow ninja" one would hope, one big happy fandom of TMNT that try to help each other out....okay, so it never works like that, but you get the idea. After all, there's always those "bad guys" like Shredder in our midst. (Though I have seen Shredder do a number of very nice things for other fans over the years.)
 
But a good example is the recent convention where Ivey even posted a video clip to share with all of us. That was wonderful! How is that a bad thing??

I went to Japan a year ago in March, and right before it, I just left the all the TMNT online communities I was a part of for a while because I saw things that made me very unhappy. About how I felt people were being treated, and it was while before I gave it a cautious try again here. I think these boards are the best set of boards I have seen in some years, where it's all ages appropriate, but so many varieties of TMNT fandom are welcome. And there's a lot less flaming and people making others miserable. No place is ever going to be perfect because we are all varied individuals across the US, from around the world, and of different ages and interests. But part of "community" starts with oneself.
Before you give up on this place and "yet another fan community" why not try a different approach first?

[Darth_CJJ]

I know that there is an unwritten (or IS it written?) rule about not replying to older topics on forums, but I simply had to reply to this thread.

Dark Angel, I had very mixed emotions when reading the posts in this thread. I could really identify with Michaelangelo's frustration. I get the sense that you aren't an adult yet, or that you don't have enough adult responsibilities if you are in fact an adult, because if you were/did, you wouldn't be concerned about something as petty as whether or not people pay attention to you.

The fact that you turn on Michaelangelo when she does go out of her way to show you that she does in fact care about you suggests to me that you might have some boundary issues. I get the sense that you didn't get enough attention growing up (which we all need). This whole thing isn't entirely your fault. However, I feel that we as human beings do have to make choices that impact what happens throughout the rest of our lives. I sense that you have boundary issues because you crave the attention that you didn't get when you were younger, but at the same time, you feel that you don't really deserve that attention and so you try to sabotage healthy relationships with people who would naturally gravitate towards the role of being a mentor/parental figure (like Michaelangelo).

Again, it hurts me to see anyone frustrated or confused or hurting, regardless of who they are. Everything I've said here has been said out of love, and I hope that if you do in fact have some issues that you will go see a counselor and work through some of these issues. There is no shame in that. I've been/am in therapy myself. The problem with the world today is that too many people think that just because they didn't make the mess, they shouldn't have to clean it up. That's a bad attitude to have. If I see some trash on the ground and just walk by because someone else threw it there, I'm really just as guilty as the person who littered; I have no right to complain that there's trash on the ground if I'm capable of picking it up and make a conscious choice not to do so. The same is the case with you. If you've had a crappy life, that's not your fault, and I'm sorry. But it's time to step up to the plate and start asking how you can improve yourself rather than coming here and blaming others, simply because they haven't taken an interest in you that you feel to be adequate. I've been in this fandom for several years now. I do my best to be a good friend to as many people as I can. In the past I failed miserably. Not everyone you meet should/has to absolutely adore you. There is no law that says that they have to, and not doing so does not make them a bad person.

Again, just because you didn't throw it there doesn't mean you don't have a responsibility to clean up some of the garbage in your life. You have to do it for yourself, because nobody else is going to do it for you. This may sound harsh, but we live in a world where you have to ask yourself "what is it I want?" and "How do I get it?" If you have had problems in this fandom/on other forums, that is because you made choices that probably weren't good ones. You have control over the dynamic that you create when you interact with others. Not them. They only have it if you give it to them. You need to learn how to be in control. You need to learn to decide what exactly it is you want out of your life, and then figure out how you get it.

[Aignatius]

Well, of all the fora I'm a member of, this one tends to have the biggest collection of juvenile delinquents I've ever seen.
Either that or people who meet one or two VAs think they're the cat's pajamas. Pretty laughable, eh? Yessir, pretty laughable. Instead of making accomplishments on their own lives, they have to worship people who have done something interesting.

I for one come on here to have a bit of fun, and some folks just take themselves and the fandom a wee bit tooooo seriously. Swelled heads, I think.
Well, hang it all, just thumb your nose at them and find people who do like you for who you are. If some people don't make you feel welcome, whose problem is it?
And that's all I have to say on the matter.  

[Darth_CJJ]

Well, of all the fora I'm a member of, this one tends to have the biggest collection of juvenile delinquents I've ever seen.

This one does? Than you must not be a member at T-Drome.

Either that or people who meet one or two VAs think they're the cat's pajamas. Pretty laughable, eh? Yessir, pretty laughable. Instead of making accomplishments on their own lives, they have to worship people who have done something interesting.

I for one come on here to have a bit of fun, and some folks just take themselves and the fandom a wee bit tooooo seriously. Swelled heads, I think.
Well, hang it all, just thumb your nose at them and find people who do like you for who you are. If some people don't make you feel welcome, whose problem is it?
And that's all I have to say on the matter.  

So...you think Dark Angel had a point?

[WolfofMibu]

I am going to play devil's advocate for a moment and ask a question...

Why is it all of us that go to conventions and meet the voice actors get treated so poorly by those that don't?

Could it be people that don't get to go to conventions and haven't met the voice actors are immature and jealous and can't deal with that fact, so they try to make all of us that have feel badly for doing so?


You know most of the time my statement above isn't even true and it isn't meant to actually even represent anyone on this forum. It is a blanket statement. Meant honestly to offer one very narrow view and most likely to offend people that could even the tinest bit fall into the catagory.

The whole idea of this thread is in my opinion mean. Its a very singular view of a topic that encompasses many people in varying life situtations.

Fandom is fandom, we all like ours to varying degrees and are willing to invest different levels of time and money into it. This doesn't make any one fan better then any other, nor any one fan a jerk for being willing to dish out a little extra to attend conventions, then being excited about the people they get to talk to.

I honestly feel having read this whole thread the people that have met the voice actors are acting rather humble and hurt, why the people that are questioning the way they are acting are being rather rude and critical.

If you don't like the fact we talk about people we have met, don't read the memories or conventions section of the forum. Honestly thats where nearly all of this is talked about and posted.

What a amuses me is the amount of people that complain about this forum and the way people act. I personally find this forum to be very mature and that we have very interesting conversations. I am part of a lot of anime forums with screaming fan boys and girls with enough drama to make your head spin.

[OnnaRaphael]

To piggyback on what you've said Wolf, this is the only TMNT forum I'll even step foot into because I've heard about the drama that goes on in the bigger forums.  I've apparently missed a good majority of the rudeness that supposedly goes on here.

And coming from someone who can't go to cons and meet their favorite VAs all the time I've never gotten the sense that the people who do meet them think they're better than anyone else.  Sometimes it can seem like maybe they're bragging a little, but then you have to step back and realize that if they were bragging there were tons of other times they could have done it and weren't.  There's a difference between throwing something in someone's face and simply telling the story for other's (and your own) enjoyment.

[Kazari]

I feel the same way in agreement with Onna and Wolf. I hated other forums, which I won't mention here, because I feltl like people had their cliques and they could treat anyone like dirt, but it didn't matter because they had connections with the admins and if you disagreed with them on situations, it was like a huge deal on it. I am thankful that I found the ONLY forum for TMNT, which is this one, that I feel like I pretty much can along with everyone. I know some of us had our disagreements, and with that, I mean between members and myself...but in the end..after talking with these people one on one, If elt like the net gave me the wrong impression of them and I am thankful. If I NEVER went to forums, I could never meet the friends I have now.

I don't see any immaturity here, and I must be blind if there is.

I agree with Wolf in the sense that I think some people are flatout jealous of meeting voice actors. I know I can't see every single person that some of my friends have seen, but I don't loathe them. If I make friends, sometimes, they will be willing enough to get me an autograph at cons that I can't attend. I actually admire IveyAngelo on here, in the sense that she is always so close to almost every aspect of TMNT. It's amazing and I enjoy listening to her stories and her pictures.

I just don't understand how people can say that people are immature here. I practically see NO fights at all compared to other forums. Everyone seems to get along 95% of the time and I feel like I won't be bashed instantly over everything I say. I also say that I could never loathe anyone who gets to meet voice actors. I have met a few and it means the world to me. If someone loathes me for that, then plainly they are flat out jealous because conventions are all over the country, so I don't see any excuse why someone can't just go to one if they really want to. Heck, I went to Vegas to just meet Sam Regal. Vegas is over a thousand miles away and it cost me a fortune, but that is what I wanted in my life, and I put everything I could into it.

Enough said

[Aignatius]

I see. Thanks for enlightening me.
It was said in humor, but I guess I hit a nerve? If it is something that bothers you, then I can understand why you feel the way you do.
Hopefully you will be able to resolve this trouble, and move on.

[Darth_CJJ]

I see. Thanks for enlightening me.
It was said in humor, but I guess I hit a nerve? If it is something that bothers you, then I can understand why you feel the way you do.
Hopefully you will be able to resolve this trouble, and move on.

As someone who has been a TMNT fan almost as long as he has been alive, I have to say, your comment about people taking the fandom "a wee bit too seriously" is truly a slap in the face. While meeting voice actors is not on the top of my to do list (they're just people, for Christ's sake) I can understand why that would be a big deal for someone. Me, I'm just happy collecting action figures and comic books. But  I can imagine that for them, it would be like a hardcore Christian being able to meet Jae-sus face to face. And besides, if certain people on this board are willing to shell out a lot of money to be able to meet people like Rob Paulsen, more power to them. I know that if I spent MY hard-earned money to go to a convention and had a really good experience, I'd be inclined to brag about it to. In my opinion, you have a right to brag when you spend that kind of money. It's built into the price you pay to go to a convention.

I seriously doubt that the people who go to meet VAs do so because they have no accomplishments of their own. That is a very harsh criticism of them. To struggle with living successfully in today's maddening world is heroic enough without having to be rich, famous, or popular. We are all here because we share common interests. We don't have to agree on everything.

At some point, the topic of this thread was skewed by someone. Michaelangelo went out of her way to try to show Dark Angel that she cared about her, and because Dark Angel is so used to not being cared about, she assumed that Michaelangelo was doing it out of pity, and responded by attacking Ivey for her interests. Now, I'm sure that if someone attacked me for something like that, my "older brother" Absaraka would be on them like a mama lion. Raka and I disagree about a lot of things, being that I'm liberal and he's conservative, but our friendship has still been a good one. Why? Because we know it's not worth it to get upset over petty bullsh*t. We're all human-beings with different perspectives. That's not necessarily our choice. I don't believe people make choices to be convicted of certain things. However, we do choose whether or not to be considerate and respectful of others. Until Dark Angel makes the choice to grow up and deal with whatever issues that original post stemmed from, she won't have the kind of relationships that she seems to be longing for. Because there aren't many feelings that beat feeling cared about by another human being, regardless of your flaws and quirks.

So yes, Aignatius, I did take offense to what you said about this forum having a lot of immature people and the fandom being something that some of us take too seriously. You didn't name names, but I'm assuming you were referring to Michaelangelo Ivey, and there's a possibility that you were referring to me. TMNT are like my religion. I can't speak for Raka, but he wrote a f*ckin' book about Raphael, so I'm guessing he feels the same way. Maybe there are people who'd be a little healthier and  happier if they'd lay off of having to get ever TMNT action figure variant ever made, but for some of us, TMNT is a lot more than that, and to have another fan write that off as us "taking the fandom a wee bit too seriously" really does come across as a slap in the face. I love T-Drome, but I go there for different reasons. I have spent enough time there to know that the majority of the people there act like teenagers and juveniles, not always in a bad way, but it's simply not the best place to go if you want philosophical discussion. We tried to have one over there once and the mods had to delete it because most of the members there couldn't handle it.

If you go up against me, you will be defeated. I've talked my share of bullsh*t in 22 years.

[Aignatius]

Nope, I didn't take names, but I find it interesting the people who took offense and responded. Probably because of some series of past conflicts that has nothing to do with me, and what I didn't start. You can assume all you like, but in reality, you don't know if I was thinking of anyone in particular.

Go up against me about what? There's nothing here to get into a fight over. You could have laughed it off, you could have said that it is true in some cases, or you could simply label me something to make yourself feel better, and think nothing more of it. It's your choice. It's not going to bother me, either way you go about it,  but the reactions I've seen simply underline the case in point.

I'm not here to attack people, or start fights. I made an honest observation without mincing words. This is what this forum is for, isn't it? To say something? And of course, if you dish it out, you should expect others to do the same.  I'm not going to hate anyone for speaking their mind. If you treat me badly in return for my opinions, then that says something about you, doesn't it?

Besides, I can't pretend to be anything else here, there's people on this forum who know me too well for me to get away with that.

[Leonardo]

I'd bite my tongue but that would hurt.
Ooh, Aig! The things I could saaaaay.
But you know where I live so you'd hurt me.
Aig is a very nice dragon. Really!

Okay...joke aside....

Most of us waste too much time in our lives on emotions and feelings that are not important in the bigger picture. We waste it on negative emotions that only stress us out more, or hurt others.
We ALL do it at one time or another, or more. Most of us can't help it, that from time to time it will happen.
We will say something to peeve someone off. That sets off a nerve.
Sometimes, people look to take offense. They thrive on getting fired up and issuing challenges or upping the insults.
Or they get mad unfairly at someone who couldn't possibly know what the person behind the handle and icon is really like or really dealing with in life. Or make judgements about others. "The whole world should think like I do" mentality. So we shouldn't rush to be offended.
Most people want to be respected, loved, admired.
But you have to give it to get it, too.
We should ask ourselves if we might be guilty before we flame on.
This forum in the TMNT-L forums was set up as an outlet for stress, so when entering this forum, we need to remember that.
We need to come in here NOT looking to take insult to get into someone's face.
Don't return anger or frustration with more of the same. Try to turn the emotion to something constructive.
And that is sooo hard to do. And I can't succeed with that always either.
Maybe sometimes we should come in here hoping to help someone, help put out a fire, help build a bridge, instead of fanning the flames.
Everyone's post in here might just be a rant, a need to get something aired, something to release frustration. Sometimes it might also be a request for some level of deeper understanding, if you're willing to really read the words and reflect on them, and not just take them at face value.


I can see both sides of the "con and meeting VAs or artists thing".
There are a LOT of fans that no matter what they really want, they will NOT be able to go to a Convention. It's not just about money, although that is often the main reason. Some fans are not just teenagers or 20-year olds. Some fans are adults with kids of their own. And there's a bunch of other reasons that some fans don't air their private lives in the public forums, but they have their reasons they won't or can't go to Cons.
And some fans are in a position they can go to Cons. However they do it, time, and money and cutting corners or not to afford it.

I already posted my thoughts on those that go to the Cons and post their adventures, about why I would or would not have personal issues about those who do it. So I won't repeat my comments on this. You can go look back to my earlier post if you want.

I just have had too much stress at work the past few weeks (month?) and wanted to try to present yet another view.



 

[Aignatius]

To clear something up here, I will say noooo, I am not jealous of those who spend a lot of time and energy going to Cons to hang around with people of similar interests and chase the voice actors around, or whatever it is they do.
Personally, I'd rather spend my money on my cars, and go on a nice long road trip up Sackatomatoes Valley to Shasta and points north.
Going to the San D con was fun at the time, and this year looks like it's going to be a good one, but I still wasn't strongly motivated enough to work on going to it.
So, no, I wasn't speaking out of jealousy, or any such rot, I was poking fun at a mindset that is prevalent in many fandoms.

And to reiterate, since this is the unmoderated forum, it's a place where people can speak their mind. Or debate, or take pot-shots, or serve up duck flambe`.

[Jephael]

I've been feeling very torn about this whole situation because Ivey is a good friend. Grantid she has her flaws, but it's what makes her human and I'm proud that I got to actually spend the day with her back in the late winter!

Around the same time I was just getting to know Dark Angel who I'd been chatting with since Christmas. She was a delight to chat with and share ideas when from out of the blue she became angry for the reasons you all had been discussing and the next thing I know I'm trying desperatly to calm her down.

I can't stand being forced to take sides on any matter and at this point I could care less about who did what to who because all of this anguish and jealousy is a blasted WASTE OF TIME!!!

[Aignatius]

You know, I have to admit, I haven't been reading all the threads on the fora, so I'm not up on all the drama going on in the fandom. So, when a friend of mine talked to me on the phone yesterday, she said she was given the impression that I was reacting to some event that happened lately. It figures, it's to do with going to the convention and seeing the voice actors recently, isn't it?
Seriously, people, I'm not as much into that as others are. I'm more into the comics related stuff, than movie-TV related stuff. And no, I don't talk extensively about what I'm doing with my own stuff. It comes along slowly because other things are demanding my attention lately. A big transitional time.
I come on here, sometimes I'm tired. I'm on other fora that have a different sense of humor from this one, where people rib each other mercilessly, but they aren't fighting, or hating anyone, they're just ribbing. So, it sometimes carries over to other fora, where people don't understand the humor, or the sarcasm.

So, it bears explanation. I'm not the enemy. The enemy is out there wanting to fly planes into buildings and blow up trains for some twisted rhetoric that justifies the taking of innocent lives. So, other than some silly wordage, I'm harmless.

Not to mention I get a bit pompous at times. But come now, don't be intimidated, I don't bite.  

[Michaelangelo]

Wow this area has a lot of stuff going on in it since I went on the trip... and I know I should just let it die though I'd like to come in here for a second and say a few things.   Since well... even though I wasn't here I seem to be mentioned enough *smirk*

To me the Dark Angel issue has been over for a while now, since this was an old topic and I haven't talked to her really much sense.   And her topic originally was going on about people not replying to her (which I did check up on and found that theory to be wrong, each topic she's started had replies from people).   True she complained about people meeting the VAs, though as said before even she is hooked to VA stuff, as she would bring it up a lot.

Though the topic got changed a bit when Aig brought up that she's not all for that, and said somethings that she now said was joking (please when saying stuff like that, show some how that you're joking like making a face    cause on the internet we can not hear tones of voices or see your real face when you're saying it, to know it's a joke.)   Lines like...

Pretty laughable, eh? Yessir, pretty laughable. Instead of making accomplishments on their own lives, they have to worship people who have done something interesting.

Could be taken very offensive by those of us who do conventions.   Conventions are a hobby, something to do to enjoy life.  There is no worshipping done, and plenty of us have our own lifes that are going on which are interesting enough to where the VAs are even asking us about it.  There isn't a person I know in our group who hasn't done something with their life which has nothing to do with the characters they like on TV, which they are proud of.  So a comment like that would bring forth a lot of replies from people being hurt, as if a slap to the face.... as it has...

Though I do agree with

If some people don't make you feel welcome, whose problem is it?  And that's all I have to say on the matter.

If people always worry about what others say and do, it's not really living for your life.  To truely be happy be yourself and hope people get to know you for who you are.   So I totally agree with you there Aig, and I hope you weren't joking on that level, cause this is a very true statement.

Now I read through all the replies here and saw that Blue, Onna and Kaz.  I see where each of them were coming from, since they love to do these shows.  It's not like we go into General, TV, the Lounge or many other areas saying anything like "We know so and so, and you don't"  infact that is the total oppisite of what we do, we say "this person is going to be at this event come meet up with us and get to know the person if you want to.  It'd be a fun event we can all enjoy."  If anyone has a problem with that.... as stated by Aig  "If some people don't make you feel welcome, whose problem is it?"   It's not ours, we're having a blast and not hurting anyone, or at least we're not trying to.

Though it does get me with this.... Aig's reply...

It was said in humor, but I guess I hit a nerve? If it is something that bothers you, then I can understand why you feel the way you do.
Hopefully you will be able to resolve this trouble, and move on.

Yes I saw the smiley at the end of the line, meaning once again you were joking.  Thank you for placing a face at the end this time, so that people can see you were joking.  Though once you realized that you hurt people with what you said.... instead of showing that you're really sorry or that you didn't mean to, you went right into another joke.   This is showing more so, that the feelings of those that you hurt doesn't really matter, cause it was only humor and they should learn to get a back bone and laugh at it.   Everyone is brought up different in this world, and the world I was brought up in when I realize I hurt someone without trying, I say sorry and cut the joking to respect the fact that they were able to reply showing their feelings without attacking.  (Cause yes, I did read these replys and there was no insults they were just defending themselves).  Throwing in a joke right away is more saying that it doesn't trouble you that you hit that nerve with the people at all.

The next reply after that was a bit interesting to read, and I'll like to reply to that as well...

t would be like a hardcore Christian being able to meet Jae-sus face to face.

Ok... this is starting to get weird, why does everyone seem to compare us meeting the VAs with worshipping them???   I would never compare us meeting VAs with Christians or any other religion out there.   There's no worshipping invold.  Let's get this straight, the VAs and other guest are all only human, they're not a god, there's not specail things put here to entertain and be bowed down to, they're not above the fans in any way.  They're human, just human.   And when I meet them, that is how they're treated as humans.  If I meet a guest that I don't like, I won't go to meet that guest again... just because they have a job doesn't mean you have to like them or worship them.  

I like to meet these people to see what they're really like in person, and if they enjoy their job.  My dream job is to be in entertainment, acting, art... some type of job where I can be out there making other people happy.  It's a great feeling to see the smiles on people's faces.  So when I meet the people behind the scenes I'm interested in learning why they're there, and if they enjoy that feeling as well.   And a lot of times I end up making friends with them, and we see each other eye to eye... not us fans bowing down.  Than the cons turn from going to see "Guest" to going to see "Friends".   So this is no way anything like worshipping the guys... and if anyone sees the VAs as more than human than they may want to re think that whole theory... they're just people with an awesome job!

I seriously doubt that the people who go to meet VAs do so because they have no accomplishments of their own. That is a very harsh criticism of them. To struggle with living successfully in today's maddening world is heroic enough without having to be rich, famous, or popular. We are all here because we share common interests. We don't have to agree on everything.

I agree here, a lot of people have gone on with their lives and have lots of things they're proud of.  The conventions are just a hobby.  That is it.   Some people build modle planes, some people sing in the shower, and some people go to conventions... there is no harm in having this as a hobby, as long as they're still taking care of important things in life like bills and family.  Still realizing there's more to life than the conventions.

CJ, thanks for defending me in the topic with DA.  Though as I mentioned this topic has been over to me for a long time, I said my peace on it in my reply to DA.   Though please note that DA was not only lashing out and attacking me in that first topic, she was attacking everyone on this board.  So while she was attacking me, she was also attacking  Aig, Leo, Raph, Fugitoid, Kaz, Blue, and anyone else who post often on TMNT-L.  Saying that we're all being curl and ignoreing her.  So in no means was this topic just a DA bash Ivey post.

You didn't name names, but I'm assuming you were referring to Michaelangelo Ivey, and there's a possibility that you were referring to me.

This here has to be the line that got me to even reply to all of this.  When someone does not name someone in their post, please do not asume you know who they're talking about, because when you asume something like that in away you're stateing that what she said fits very closely to this person here.   I was not a part of this topic even at the time, and we had three other convention goes reply to this topic before this reply here.   All three of which has been to more than one convention this year, and are known by the VAs very well.   So it's not like I'm the only one on here that is being hit by what is being said about VA and convention stuff.  So please do not point me out when I was not mentioned.  

I understand totally that you were trying to defend me.  I understand that you did not mean harm by bringing up my name.  I'm just asking for people not to bring me up in their defense posts unless I was really under attack by name and all.   Though in both DA's post and Aig's posts, I by no means am brought up directly.  If I took it as a personal lash out at me, I would reply... though I was reading these post from a Western Union in PA and wasn't replying.

If you go up against me, you will be defeated. I've talked my share of bullsh*t in 22 years.

Even though I saw the wink, I want to state that there is no fight here.  There is people stating how they feel about issues... and people taking these issues and turning them into what they call jokes.   So please don't state something, even as a joke in this type of matter.  I don't want to see a fight here on TMNT-L.

Ok, replying to the next post....

Nope, I didn't take names, but I find it interesting the people who took offense and responded.

I will just like to point out that to this point, none of the above replys to your topics were stated from me in any shape or matter.  So I was not a part of it.  Though I'll also like to say that you shouldn't be to surprise to some of the people that did reply since they're known for posting a lot in "Events and Meet-ups" and "TMNT Memories", since those are the topic area where your post would of offended.  

So, no, I wasn't speaking out of jealousy, or any such rot, I was poking fun at a mindset that is prevalent in many fandoms.

I realized that, though poking fun at different part of fandom, will offend and bring people forward to debate their side, they should be able to reply without feeling like replying is a bad thing either.   We all have our areas that we like that people won't understand, so when we see people saying things about it, we like to try and explain why we enjoy that part of life so much, and there is no harm in that as long as people don't use it as a reason to start a war or flame others.

Different areas of fandom that can either be looked down upon or loved...

Collecting everything TMNT
Going to cons to meet the people behind the scenes
Traveling to meet the fans
Writting fan fics
Doing Fan art
making fan web sites
planning events for fans to get together for
joining forums
nameing family or pets after characters

and so much more...

Though while people won't always understand the different areas of the fandoms.... people will joke about it... though others will see it as offensive cause that is what they do.... or it's what they enjoy....   so yes, it is something for those to think about when they're doing the posts... but it's also important for others not to flame or fight because the other person doesn't have the same feelings as them.  Debating is a great way of shareing feelings, and if the other side doesn't want to debate or hear why people enjoy it, it is the other side's choice.  And is the way they want to live, just as those who like those type of fandoms are living the way they want to live.  

Ok, now for the one topic that went back on topic of what was going on here before the VA speak....

Ivey is a good friend. Grantid she has her flaws

Me...?    Flaws?   ....   never     (Heh though seriously everyone has flaws... just had to joke with this... see faces... I'm playing... not being serious.)

Now more serious matter...

I can't stand being forced to take sides on any matter and at this point I could care less about who did what to who because all of this anguish and jealousy is a blasted WASTE OF TIME!!!

No one should ever have to take sides, someone who except their friends to take sides in a fight, debate, or anything else is basically not being a good friend to their friend.  I want anyone who is friends with DA, and anyone else that doesn't like or get along with me and is friends with me as well... to REMAIN friends with the other side as well.  If there is a matter of debate, fighting or anything going on between me and another one of your friends... it is NOT your responablity in any matter to take sides or even get invold.   Being open ear from time to time to help vent to help people chill is one thing... but being force to take a side is another that I will not ever ask of a friend.  

I know for a matter of fact because at least 4 different people have came to me in the last month saying that DA is speaking about me still behind my back.  I have not emailed her, PMed her, or IMed her in any way shape or forum to keep anything going, since the post here on this topic.  I am not going around flameing her, I am not going around telling people to not be her friend, and I have to amit that most of the time she is not even on my mind, I got a lot more important things to worry about than someone who did not except me as a friend.  I've got a life, family issues, money issues, health issues, and so much more to think about.   So it's not like I'm going out there to keep a fight going.   If DA does read this, than all I ask of her is if she still has a problem with me, bring it to me and lets try to talk things out.  But otherwise, I'd really like it if she just drops it and stops thinking about me.  I've never done anything for this to be going on the way it is.

Anyone who is friends with DA remain friends with her!  Enjoy the friendship (she seems to need friends, if she feels so ignored).   I do not in any means want to bring harm or depression to her life, so all I ask is that people do not choose a side, just be there as a friend to both sides.  And those who know me, know that I am not going around talking about her.  If it's brought up that she's talking about me, all I do is mention what happened and that's it.  And if anyone here doesn't know what happened, read my second post here.   That's it.  

So Jephael, do not feel you have to choose sides, please.  I don't want you being stressed in any matter what so ever.

So in wrap up, I'm not posting here to attack or flame anyone.   I am posting here because I was brought up, and since I was brought up so much, I decided to share my views of other parts of this.   The only area where I was really joking was about the flaws.  

I really do appericate everyone being honest and shareing their different views on the subjects.   Though I will keep the one thing that I asked earlier... do not bring me up in your defence unless I was named.  

Fans enjoy the area of the fandom that you like!!!!!  

[Kazari]

I don't see what the big deal is to some people. We go to cons and see voice actors that's fine..others do not and that's their choice. So what if some of us have some of the voice actors as friends and talk about them all the time? It happens because we go to the cons and meet them and respect them and their talent. That is their choice. If they didn't like us, they wouldn't talk to us. I don't know what the big deal is to some people.  

I dont understand how this topic turned into DA saying that it sucked being new to bashing conventions *shrugs*

[WolfofMibu]

Ivey I just wanted to thank you for your reply.

I did feel slightly belittled for my feelings, so I thought whatever I was going to just forget about it.

You said clearly everything I was feeling.

For that I am grateful.

[Kazari]

The conventions are accomplishments for me because I'm making contacts. I am going to grad school in screenwriting and want to be part of the animation industry. I have met a lot of people who can get my foot in the door. For instance Sam has been helping me and with that I'm grateful. If I didn't go to conventions, I would never meet the people that were the only way to get me known out there. Ivey, you basically said everything that I would have but in probably better words

[Aignatius]

Yes. Miz Ivey, very eloquently wriitten. But I think it would have been better to attribute the quotes to the right people. That got a bit confusing on who said what, unless one wants to wade through all the previous posts...  

[Kazari]

I understood everything perfectly.

[Aignatius]

Good for you!