It sucks being new

[Aignatius]

Nope, I didn't take names, but I find it interesting the people who took offense and responded. Probably because of some series of past conflicts that has nothing to do with me, and what I didn't start. You can assume all you like, but in reality, you don't know if I was thinking of anyone in particular.

Go up against me about what? There's nothing here to get into a fight over. You could have laughed it off, you could have said that it is true in some cases, or you could simply label me something to make yourself feel better, and think nothing more of it. It's your choice. It's not going to bother me, either way you go about it,  but the reactions I've seen simply underline the case in point.

I'm not here to attack people, or start fights. I made an honest observation without mincing words. This is what this forum is for, isn't it? To say something? And of course, if you dish it out, you should expect others to do the same.  I'm not going to hate anyone for speaking their mind. If you treat me badly in return for my opinions, then that says something about you, doesn't it?

Besides, I can't pretend to be anything else here, there's people on this forum who know me too well for me to get away with that.

[Leonardo]

I'd bite my tongue but that would hurt.
Ooh, Aig! The things I could saaaaay.
But you know where I live so you'd hurt me.
Aig is a very nice dragon. Really!

Okay...joke aside....

Most of us waste too much time in our lives on emotions and feelings that are not important in the bigger picture. We waste it on negative emotions that only stress us out more, or hurt others.
We ALL do it at one time or another, or more. Most of us can't help it, that from time to time it will happen.
We will say something to peeve someone off. That sets off a nerve.
Sometimes, people look to take offense. They thrive on getting fired up and issuing challenges or upping the insults.
Or they get mad unfairly at someone who couldn't possibly know what the person behind the handle and icon is really like or really dealing with in life. Or make judgements about others. "The whole world should think like I do" mentality. So we shouldn't rush to be offended.
Most people want to be respected, loved, admired.
But you have to give it to get it, too.
We should ask ourselves if we might be guilty before we flame on.
This forum in the TMNT-L forums was set up as an outlet for stress, so when entering this forum, we need to remember that.
We need to come in here NOT looking to take insult to get into someone's face.
Don't return anger or frustration with more of the same. Try to turn the emotion to something constructive.
And that is sooo hard to do. And I can't succeed with that always either.
Maybe sometimes we should come in here hoping to help someone, help put out a fire, help build a bridge, instead of fanning the flames.
Everyone's post in here might just be a rant, a need to get something aired, something to release frustration. Sometimes it might also be a request for some level of deeper understanding, if you're willing to really read the words and reflect on them, and not just take them at face value.


I can see both sides of the "con and meeting VAs or artists thing".
There are a LOT of fans that no matter what they really want, they will NOT be able to go to a Convention. It's not just about money, although that is often the main reason. Some fans are not just teenagers or 20-year olds. Some fans are adults with kids of their own. And there's a bunch of other reasons that some fans don't air their private lives in the public forums, but they have their reasons they won't or can't go to Cons.
And some fans are in a position they can go to Cons. However they do it, time, and money and cutting corners or not to afford it.

I already posted my thoughts on those that go to the Cons and post their adventures, about why I would or would not have personal issues about those who do it. So I won't repeat my comments on this. You can go look back to my earlier post if you want.

I just have had too much stress at work the past few weeks (month?) and wanted to try to present yet another view.



 

[Aignatius]

To clear something up here, I will say noooo, I am not jealous of those who spend a lot of time and energy going to Cons to hang around with people of similar interests and chase the voice actors around, or whatever it is they do.
Personally, I'd rather spend my money on my cars, and go on a nice long road trip up Sackatomatoes Valley to Shasta and points north.
Going to the San D con was fun at the time, and this year looks like it's going to be a good one, but I still wasn't strongly motivated enough to work on going to it.
So, no, I wasn't speaking out of jealousy, or any such rot, I was poking fun at a mindset that is prevalent in many fandoms.

And to reiterate, since this is the unmoderated forum, it's a place where people can speak their mind. Or debate, or take pot-shots, or serve up duck flambe`.

[Jephael]

I've been feeling very torn about this whole situation because Ivey is a good friend. Grantid she has her flaws, but it's what makes her human and I'm proud that I got to actually spend the day with her back in the late winter!

Around the same time I was just getting to know Dark Angel who I'd been chatting with since Christmas. She was a delight to chat with and share ideas when from out of the blue she became angry for the reasons you all had been discussing and the next thing I know I'm trying desperatly to calm her down.

I can't stand being forced to take sides on any matter and at this point I could care less about who did what to who because all of this anguish and jealousy is a blasted WASTE OF TIME!!!

[Aignatius]

You know, I have to admit, I haven't been reading all the threads on the fora, so I'm not up on all the drama going on in the fandom. So, when a friend of mine talked to me on the phone yesterday, she said she was given the impression that I was reacting to some event that happened lately. It figures, it's to do with going to the convention and seeing the voice actors recently, isn't it?
Seriously, people, I'm not as much into that as others are. I'm more into the comics related stuff, than movie-TV related stuff. And no, I don't talk extensively about what I'm doing with my own stuff. It comes along slowly because other things are demanding my attention lately. A big transitional time.
I come on here, sometimes I'm tired. I'm on other fora that have a different sense of humor from this one, where people rib each other mercilessly, but they aren't fighting, or hating anyone, they're just ribbing. So, it sometimes carries over to other fora, where people don't understand the humor, or the sarcasm.

So, it bears explanation. I'm not the enemy. The enemy is out there wanting to fly planes into buildings and blow up trains for some twisted rhetoric that justifies the taking of innocent lives. So, other than some silly wordage, I'm harmless.

Not to mention I get a bit pompous at times. But come now, don't be intimidated, I don't bite.  

[Michaelangelo]

Wow this area has a lot of stuff going on in it since I went on the trip... and I know I should just let it die though I'd like to come in here for a second and say a few things.   Since well... even though I wasn't here I seem to be mentioned enough *smirk*

To me the Dark Angel issue has been over for a while now, since this was an old topic and I haven't talked to her really much sense.   And her topic originally was going on about people not replying to her (which I did check up on and found that theory to be wrong, each topic she's started had replies from people).   True she complained about people meeting the VAs, though as said before even she is hooked to VA stuff, as she would bring it up a lot.

Though the topic got changed a bit when Aig brought up that she's not all for that, and said somethings that she now said was joking (please when saying stuff like that, show some how that you're joking like making a face    cause on the internet we can not hear tones of voices or see your real face when you're saying it, to know it's a joke.)   Lines like...

Pretty laughable, eh? Yessir, pretty laughable. Instead of making accomplishments on their own lives, they have to worship people who have done something interesting.

Could be taken very offensive by those of us who do conventions.   Conventions are a hobby, something to do to enjoy life.  There is no worshipping done, and plenty of us have our own lifes that are going on which are interesting enough to where the VAs are even asking us about it.  There isn't a person I know in our group who hasn't done something with their life which has nothing to do with the characters they like on TV, which they are proud of.  So a comment like that would bring forth a lot of replies from people being hurt, as if a slap to the face.... as it has...

Though I do agree with

If some people don't make you feel welcome, whose problem is it?  And that's all I have to say on the matter.

If people always worry about what others say and do, it's not really living for your life.  To truely be happy be yourself and hope people get to know you for who you are.   So I totally agree with you there Aig, and I hope you weren't joking on that level, cause this is a very true statement.

Now I read through all the replies here and saw that Blue, Onna and Kaz.  I see where each of them were coming from, since they love to do these shows.  It's not like we go into General, TV, the Lounge or many other areas saying anything like "We know so and so, and you don't"  infact that is the total oppisite of what we do, we say "this person is going to be at this event come meet up with us and get to know the person if you want to.  It'd be a fun event we can all enjoy."  If anyone has a problem with that.... as stated by Aig  "If some people don't make you feel welcome, whose problem is it?"   It's not ours, we're having a blast and not hurting anyone, or at least we're not trying to.

Though it does get me with this.... Aig's reply...

It was said in humor, but I guess I hit a nerve? If it is something that bothers you, then I can understand why you feel the way you do.
Hopefully you will be able to resolve this trouble, and move on.

Yes I saw the smiley at the end of the line, meaning once again you were joking.  Thank you for placing a face at the end this time, so that people can see you were joking.  Though once you realized that you hurt people with what you said.... instead of showing that you're really sorry or that you didn't mean to, you went right into another joke.   This is showing more so, that the feelings of those that you hurt doesn't really matter, cause it was only humor and they should learn to get a back bone and laugh at it.   Everyone is brought up different in this world, and the world I was brought up in when I realize I hurt someone without trying, I say sorry and cut the joking to respect the fact that they were able to reply showing their feelings without attacking.  (Cause yes, I did read these replys and there was no insults they were just defending themselves).  Throwing in a joke right away is more saying that it doesn't trouble you that you hit that nerve with the people at all.

The next reply after that was a bit interesting to read, and I'll like to reply to that as well...

t would be like a hardcore Christian being able to meet Jae-sus face to face.

Ok... this is starting to get weird, why does everyone seem to compare us meeting the VAs with worshipping them???   I would never compare us meeting VAs with Christians or any other religion out there.   There's no worshipping invold.  Let's get this straight, the VAs and other guest are all only human, they're not a god, there's not specail things put here to entertain and be bowed down to, they're not above the fans in any way.  They're human, just human.   And when I meet them, that is how they're treated as humans.  If I meet a guest that I don't like, I won't go to meet that guest again... just because they have a job doesn't mean you have to like them or worship them.  

I like to meet these people to see what they're really like in person, and if they enjoy their job.  My dream job is to be in entertainment, acting, art... some type of job where I can be out there making other people happy.  It's a great feeling to see the smiles on people's faces.  So when I meet the people behind the scenes I'm interested in learning why they're there, and if they enjoy that feeling as well.   And a lot of times I end up making friends with them, and we see each other eye to eye... not us fans bowing down.  Than the cons turn from going to see "Guest" to going to see "Friends".   So this is no way anything like worshipping the guys... and if anyone sees the VAs as more than human than they may want to re think that whole theory... they're just people with an awesome job!

I seriously doubt that the people who go to meet VAs do so because they have no accomplishments of their own. That is a very harsh criticism of them. To struggle with living successfully in today's maddening world is heroic enough without having to be rich, famous, or popular. We are all here because we share common interests. We don't have to agree on everything.

I agree here, a lot of people have gone on with their lives and have lots of things they're proud of.  The conventions are just a hobby.  That is it.   Some people build modle planes, some people sing in the shower, and some people go to conventions... there is no harm in having this as a hobby, as long as they're still taking care of important things in life like bills and family.  Still realizing there's more to life than the conventions.

CJ, thanks for defending me in the topic with DA.  Though as I mentioned this topic has been over to me for a long time, I said my peace on it in my reply to DA.   Though please note that DA was not only lashing out and attacking me in that first topic, she was attacking everyone on this board.  So while she was attacking me, she was also attacking  Aig, Leo, Raph, Fugitoid, Kaz, Blue, and anyone else who post often on TMNT-L.  Saying that we're all being curl and ignoreing her.  So in no means was this topic just a DA bash Ivey post.

You didn't name names, but I'm assuming you were referring to Michaelangelo Ivey, and there's a possibility that you were referring to me.

This here has to be the line that got me to even reply to all of this.  When someone does not name someone in their post, please do not asume you know who they're talking about, because when you asume something like that in away you're stateing that what she said fits very closely to this person here.   I was not a part of this topic even at the time, and we had three other convention goes reply to this topic before this reply here.   All three of which has been to more than one convention this year, and are known by the VAs very well.   So it's not like I'm the only one on here that is being hit by what is being said about VA and convention stuff.  So please do not point me out when I was not mentioned.  

I understand totally that you were trying to defend me.  I understand that you did not mean harm by bringing up my name.  I'm just asking for people not to bring me up in their defense posts unless I was really under attack by name and all.   Though in both DA's post and Aig's posts, I by no means am brought up directly.  If I took it as a personal lash out at me, I would reply... though I was reading these post from a Western Union in PA and wasn't replying.

If you go up against me, you will be defeated. I've talked my share of bullsh*t in 22 years.

Even though I saw the wink, I want to state that there is no fight here.  There is people stating how they feel about issues... and people taking these issues and turning them into what they call jokes.   So please don't state something, even as a joke in this type of matter.  I don't want to see a fight here on TMNT-L.

Ok, replying to the next post....

Nope, I didn't take names, but I find it interesting the people who took offense and responded.

I will just like to point out that to this point, none of the above replys to your topics were stated from me in any shape or matter.  So I was not a part of it.  Though I'll also like to say that you shouldn't be to surprise to some of the people that did reply since they're known for posting a lot in "Events and Meet-ups" and "TMNT Memories", since those are the topic area where your post would of offended.  

So, no, I wasn't speaking out of jealousy, or any such rot, I was poking fun at a mindset that is prevalent in many fandoms.

I realized that, though poking fun at different part of fandom, will offend and bring people forward to debate their side, they should be able to reply without feeling like replying is a bad thing either.   We all have our areas that we like that people won't understand, so when we see people saying things about it, we like to try and explain why we enjoy that part of life so much, and there is no harm in that as long as people don't use it as a reason to start a war or flame others.

Different areas of fandom that can either be looked down upon or loved...

Collecting everything TMNT
Going to cons to meet the people behind the scenes
Traveling to meet the fans
Writting fan fics
Doing Fan art
making fan web sites
planning events for fans to get together for
joining forums
nameing family or pets after characters

and so much more...

Though while people won't always understand the different areas of the fandoms.... people will joke about it... though others will see it as offensive cause that is what they do.... or it's what they enjoy....   so yes, it is something for those to think about when they're doing the posts... but it's also important for others not to flame or fight because the other person doesn't have the same feelings as them.  Debating is a great way of shareing feelings, and if the other side doesn't want to debate or hear why people enjoy it, it is the other side's choice.  And is the way they want to live, just as those who like those type of fandoms are living the way they want to live.  

Ok, now for the one topic that went back on topic of what was going on here before the VA speak....

Ivey is a good friend. Grantid she has her flaws

Me...?    Flaws?   ....   never     (Heh though seriously everyone has flaws... just had to joke with this... see faces... I'm playing... not being serious.)

Now more serious matter...

I can't stand being forced to take sides on any matter and at this point I could care less about who did what to who because all of this anguish and jealousy is a blasted WASTE OF TIME!!!

No one should ever have to take sides, someone who except their friends to take sides in a fight, debate, or anything else is basically not being a good friend to their friend.  I want anyone who is friends with DA, and anyone else that doesn't like or get along with me and is friends with me as well... to REMAIN friends with the other side as well.  If there is a matter of debate, fighting or anything going on between me and another one of your friends... it is NOT your responablity in any matter to take sides or even get invold.   Being open ear from time to time to help vent to help people chill is one thing... but being force to take a side is another that I will not ever ask of a friend.  

I know for a matter of fact because at least 4 different people have came to me in the last month saying that DA is speaking about me still behind my back.  I have not emailed her, PMed her, or IMed her in any way shape or forum to keep anything going, since the post here on this topic.  I am not going around flameing her, I am not going around telling people to not be her friend, and I have to amit that most of the time she is not even on my mind, I got a lot more important things to worry about than someone who did not except me as a friend.  I've got a life, family issues, money issues, health issues, and so much more to think about.   So it's not like I'm going out there to keep a fight going.   If DA does read this, than all I ask of her is if she still has a problem with me, bring it to me and lets try to talk things out.  But otherwise, I'd really like it if she just drops it and stops thinking about me.  I've never done anything for this to be going on the way it is.

Anyone who is friends with DA remain friends with her!  Enjoy the friendship (she seems to need friends, if she feels so ignored).   I do not in any means want to bring harm or depression to her life, so all I ask is that people do not choose a side, just be there as a friend to both sides.  And those who know me, know that I am not going around talking about her.  If it's brought up that she's talking about me, all I do is mention what happened and that's it.  And if anyone here doesn't know what happened, read my second post here.   That's it.  

So Jephael, do not feel you have to choose sides, please.  I don't want you being stressed in any matter what so ever.

So in wrap up, I'm not posting here to attack or flame anyone.   I am posting here because I was brought up, and since I was brought up so much, I decided to share my views of other parts of this.   The only area where I was really joking was about the flaws.  

I really do appericate everyone being honest and shareing their different views on the subjects.   Though I will keep the one thing that I asked earlier... do not bring me up in your defence unless I was named.  

Fans enjoy the area of the fandom that you like!!!!!  

[Kazari]

I don't see what the big deal is to some people. We go to cons and see voice actors that's fine..others do not and that's their choice. So what if some of us have some of the voice actors as friends and talk about them all the time? It happens because we go to the cons and meet them and respect them and their talent. That is their choice. If they didn't like us, they wouldn't talk to us. I don't know what the big deal is to some people.  

I dont understand how this topic turned into DA saying that it sucked being new to bashing conventions *shrugs*

[WolfofMibu]

Ivey I just wanted to thank you for your reply.

I did feel slightly belittled for my feelings, so I thought whatever I was going to just forget about it.

You said clearly everything I was feeling.

For that I am grateful.

[Kazari]

The conventions are accomplishments for me because I'm making contacts. I am going to grad school in screenwriting and want to be part of the animation industry. I have met a lot of people who can get my foot in the door. For instance Sam has been helping me and with that I'm grateful. If I didn't go to conventions, I would never meet the people that were the only way to get me known out there. Ivey, you basically said everything that I would have but in probably better words

[Aignatius]

Yes. Miz Ivey, very eloquently wriitten. But I think it would have been better to attribute the quotes to the right people. That got a bit confusing on who said what, unless one wants to wade through all the previous posts...  

[Kazari]

I understood everything perfectly.

[Aignatius]

Good for you!